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Old 05-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #76
MotoMind
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I think the person who said the 100ft course was "too far between cones" wasn't twisting the throttle enough: Yamaha WR250R Gymkhana

Par is about 26 seconds.

FYI, I did not miss any cones. The camera is inside my helmet and I'm a tall guy so the FOV sometimes passes to the inside of the cones.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:19 AM   #77
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After a ride-safety and bike handling training, I got interested in gymkhana.
Yesterday, I did a few very low speed practices and dropped my bike twice.
Only a few scratches on the crash bar and a painful wrist.

The beauty of gymkhana is that you don't really need a lot or special stuff, not track needed and fairly cheap.

But in The Netherlands it's not really known.
The UK has some gymkhana clubs, in Belgium and Germany it's getting more and more familiar.

Here some movies from a Belgium event (check also: vmgv.be )
http://player.vimeo.com/video/32027149
http://youtu.be/GmUdlQJT4Dk
The Belgium are very creative with their course.

This is a course diagram that is used by the first open dutch gymkhana championship.
http://www.knmv.nl/uploads/files/Doc...leen-lezen.pdf
It's including distances between the cones (it's in meters)

I also found this beautiful PDF-file. It looks like 33 pages of gymkhana basic elements.
http://www.californiastatehorsemen.c...na_courses.pdf

liquid_ice screwed with this post 05-20-2012 at 03:10 AM
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:33 PM   #78
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MotoMind: yeah that course is not a slow one.

Liquid Ice: that is some creative course setup for sure. The part with placing cones from one pole to another, killed me.

The .pdf file I think refers to horse Gymkhana. Although some of those patterns can be useful for moto as well.

One thing to keep in mind, is that Gymkhana is NOT a slow speed exercise or sport.

Yes, us noobs do run these courses at a snail's pace and that's fine, its all a learning experience. But the end goal should still be, to haul ass through a course. Start out slow, but as your skills progress, push to get faster.

P.S. ran some "timed" 8's today, based on GP8 setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNxg...ature=youtu.be

Top guys are getting 27-29 second runs for five laps.
I filmed my own runs here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIthyL7uYq4
I'm hovering in 39-40 second range.

I have definitely hit my skill ceiling with this one. Time to brake down technique again, and see what is slowing me down.
My current goal is 35 seconds.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #79
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One thing that should really help is Trail Braking as described by Lee Parks from Total Control.
Here is the excerpt from his book.

"Under braking a forward weight transfer causes the front end to "dive." This has the effect of reducing the rake and trail of the machine, which makes it want to turn quicker and with less effort."
(copyright Lee Parks, all rights reserved)

I can definitely see the potential of this. As you compress front forks, you change the geometry of the bike, lowering the front and rising the rear so to speak. This will make the bike more "twitchy" and more flick-able into a tighter turn.

The whole process does require a steady hand, and a set of steel balls, with Godly trust in your tires.

From my personal experience, there is not a lot of room we are dealing with here. The time frame is also very short. And yet a lot of things are happening at the same time.

As you come up to the cone, you need to start squeezing front brake just enough to slow down, but not too fast, so you don't loose momentum.
As you start to turn around the cone, you progressively squeeze harder on the front brake, while keeping back brake at steady pressure.
Right before the apex you squeeze all you can out of the front, and start applying more rear.
At the apex you are overlapping the action of smoothly letting go of the front and harder push on the rear.
Also, all this front / rear brake malarkey, its smooth but its not exactly gentle. It still needs to be firm and prompt enough to fit into the turn as well as to actually make the front end dip a bit. Which brings up the faith in your front tire and its ability to grip in a turn, while braking.
At the same time you need to adjust throttle to increase RPMs a little bit, as the action of braking AND turning into a tight corner, really slows down the bike, so you need enough power going into the rear wheel to keep it stable and not wobble or fall over.
While all of that is going on, you are pushing with the legs into the tank to lean the bike into the turn, and wrestling with G-forces of braking with your core muscles, to keep your arms relaxed and let the bars of the bike flick into full lock. Also add into the equation the fact, that when you are turning right, your throttle arm is bent, and you bending even more at the wrist to keep RPMs stable, and when turning left, you are stretching throttle arm.

Oooooooofff.......
Just typing all of that makes me sweat.

A couple of simple tweaks really make a big difference in comfort level and better ergos.

Adjusting front brake lever angle, so that you can squeeze it, while still being able to twist the throttle a little bit, helps a great deal.
Adjusting play on the throttle cable also helps. Remove as much play as you can while it is still safe for day to day riding.

For now back to the drawing board for me, to lose those extra 5 seconds.
I really am in love with this sport.


P.S. all of the above is just my own experience, so no idea how right or wrong it is in terms of proper technique, so take it all with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid_ice View Post
http://youtu.be/GmUdlQJT4Dk
The Belgium are very creative with their course.
That looks like great fun ... loved the choice of music for that clip
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #81
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Today's GP8 - semi-spontaneous event, had a great turnout anyway

I think everyone was surprised at how a simple setup of a few cones could be so much damned fun

the best times were around 36 seconds

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Old 05-21-2012, 04:32 AM   #82
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for the GP8, how much space do you use between the cones?
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:04 PM   #83
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distance between cones is, 12 meters or 39 feet and 4 inches.

3 meter long start / finish box + 3 meters from start to first cone + 12 meters to second cone.

See diagram in the beginning of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNxg...ature=youtu.be
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:47 AM   #84
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thanks for the diagram in the video.

Are there more sub-parts in gymkhana?

I know it from riding a course, but the GP8 seems to be a separate thing all together.

Are there more parts like GP8 for example?
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:59 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid_ice View Post
thanks for the diagram in the video.

Are there more sub-parts in gymkhana?

I know it from riding a course, but the GP8 seems to be a separate thing all together.

Are there more parts like GP8 for example?
Check following video - it shows different elements of G-course (no dimensions unfortunately)
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:51 AM   #86
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There was local competition. Here is the course layout used. It's in russian but should be clear. Translations of the sections are below

dimensions|1st half|2nd half
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start/finish

and correction - on upper marks there are 540 turns (1 turns)


Video from that course

explain screwed with this post 05-23-2012 at 09:01 AM
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:08 AM   #87
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When I first saw the title I though "Oh shit ken block shit on motos". After watching a bunch of these videos I think I want to try this. Where in the bay area are people doing this?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #88
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explain: nice. Was Honda sponsoring that event?

Capt.saveaho: Maybe somebody from your area will see this post. Right now, the closest we have to some sort of Gymkhana organisation in USA, are Alabama guys over at amgrass.com. So at the moment its more of a "grab a friend, go to your local empty spot" deal. So chances are, you are the first one or one of few, in your area to do this.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:44 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredman View Post
Today's GP8 - semi-spontaneous event, had a great turnout anyway

I think everyone was surprised at how a simple setup of a few cones could be so much damned fun

the best times were around 36 seconds

This is exactly what my riding portion of the license test consisted of in 1978.
But I sure didn't do it that fast.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:38 PM   #90
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nice videos

Good stuff in those videos. Nice to have some examples. I think that was a Burgman or Majesty on the Honda sponsored ride at the very end when the rider passes through the gates to the parking area. I guess this truly is for all bikes.
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