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Old 05-23-2012, 03:19 PM   #16
NDEBT
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My Ithica 20 ga with full choke and slug barrells I love it I've had it for over 30 years. One fun thing to do when you are just wasting shells is to eject a spent hull in the air gun upside down then pull up and shoot it. it will toss them pretty high. I've killed about every kind of wild game in my state with this thing.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:24 PM   #17
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As to the "autotrigger" issue, as a general rule the early guns and the M&P guns don't have disconnectors. As long as you are aware of it and act accordingly, practicing the standard rules of safe gun handling there is no problem.

Older guns are 2 3/4, but new production is 3".
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #18
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Some things to note,

Great guns, but not the most economical ones, love the design, but if you just want something to bang around, there are cheaper guns that work, Mossburg et al.

The barrels on these shotguns are not necessarily interchangable, depending on age, some are "soldered" or permanately attached to recievers, and guns made before a certain date will not allow you to have additional barrels fitted, an issue if you "like me" have one that has an odd duck barrel that does not do all you want it to do. (in my case short with a cutts compensator).

If you just want to screw around with a shotgun an 870 is much more universal and available.

I personally prefer 2 3/4" chambered 12 gauges IN PUMP ACTION SHOTGUNS - for the simple reason that when you pump the slide, the pump has to travel a distance sufficient to "clear" the shotshell, in this case this distance must be atleast longer than the fired length of the hull, and it increases in shotguns manufactured to fire longer hulls, for instance I am just over 6' tall, with corresponding wingspan an Length of Pull, but 3.5" 12 gauge guns I feel are too long between trigger and foregrip, perhaps fine for shooting ducks and geese, but I cannot use them otherwise.

A 2.75" chambered gun however I can clear the shells much more easily, and indeed, this means the foregrip fits much more comfortably. This is less of an issue in autoloaders, and a non-issue in breakaction or single shot shotguns.

As to the autotrigger, my mother almost shot my father years ago due to this phenomenon. Keep the damned finger off the damned trigger, and always point the gun in a safe direction. Guns 101.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfp4073 View Post
...whats the difference in the shells? 12 ga aint 12 ga?
12ga is 12 ga, but there are 2 3/4", 3", 3.5" shells.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:02 PM   #20
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This may be helpfull.

http://www.ithacaowners.com/index.php
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by EvilGenius View Post
12ga is 12 ga, but there are 2 3/4", 3", 3.5" shells.

Hence 12 gauge Ain't 12 Gauge.

Depending on the load, and what you want to do with it, 12 gauges vary drastically.

12 gauge is about the most variable gauge, since the majority of international shotgun shooting competitions use it, but then again so do the majority of deer hunters in states that don't allow rifles, as do the majority of bird shooters, and the majority of people screwing around.

You can buy 12 gauge loads all the way from light target designed not to recoil much so that youth target shooters can shoot all day with out bruising or pain, all the way up to max DRAM magnum loads intended to drop geese at long range with heavy weight tungsten shot, all in 12 gauge.

Easiest way to think about it is backwards compatibility. Big heavy geese/waterfowl guns that have 3.5" chambers can handle most any loading wall the way down to light target loads (but the gun is big, and heavy, and swings slow, and if an autoloader may not cycle the light loads)

Light weight upland bird hunting guns from the 1950's will not shoot heavy modern loads, don't try it, not meant for it - much more fun to carry around bird hunting however.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G View Post
Hence 12 gauge Ain't 12 Gauge.

Depending on the load, and what you want to do with it, 12 gauges vary drastically.

12 gauge is about the most variable gauge, since the majority of international shotgun shooting competitions use it, but then again so do the majority of deer hunters in states that don't allow rifles, as do the majority of bird shooters, and the majority of people screwing around.

You can buy 12 gauge loads all the way from light target designed not to recoil much so that youth target shooters can shoot all day with out bruising or pain, all the way up to max DRAM magnum loads intended to drop geese at long range with heavy weight tungsten shot, all in 12 gauge.

Easiest way to think about it is backwards compatibility. Big heavy geese/waterfowl guns that have 3.5" chambers can handle most any loading wall the way down to light target loads (but the gun is big, and heavy, and swings slow, and if an autoloader may not cycle the light loads)

Light weight upland bird hunting guns from the 1950's will not shoot heavy modern loads, don't try it, not meant for it - much more fun to carry around bird hunting however.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

I meant 12ga in the sense that it's all the same calibre (but not necessarily the same.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:32 PM   #23
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Bought a 12 model 37 with a 20" deerslayer barrel and a 28" modified barrel when I was 16. Traded it for a remington 870 deluxe brushmaster. One of my greatest trade mistakes. The 37 was much smoother and faster handeling.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:35 PM   #24
NDEBT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P B G View Post
Some things to note,

Great guns, but not the most economical ones, love the design, but if you just want something to bang around, there are cheaper guns that work, Mossburg et al.

The barrels on these shotguns are not necessarily interchangable, depending on age, some are "soldered" or permanately attached to recievers, and guns made before a certain date will not allow you to have additional barrels fitted, an issue if you "like me" have one that has an odd duck barrel that does not do all you want it to do. (in my case short with a cutts compensator).

If you just want to screw around with a shotgun an 870 is much more universal and available.

I personally prefer 2 3/4" chambered 12 gauges IN PUMP ACTION SHOTGUNS - for the simple reason that when you pump the slide, the pump has to travel a distance sufficient to "clear" the shotshell, in this case this distance must be atleast longer than the fired length of the hull, and it increases in shotguns manufactured to fire longer hulls, for instance I am just over 6' tall, with corresponding wingspan an Length of Pull, but 3.5" 12 gauge guns I feel are too long between trigger and foregrip, perhaps fine for shooting ducks and geese, but I cannot use them otherwise.

A 2.75" chambered gun however I can clear the shells much more easily, and indeed, this means the foregrip fits much more comfortably. This is less of an issue in autoloaders, and a non-issue in breakaction or single shot shotguns.

As to the autotrigger, my mother almost shot my father years ago due to this phenomenon. Keep the damned finger off the damned trigger, and always point the gun in a safe direction. Guns 101.

I agree to a point but a model 12 winchester or a old Ithica feels less clunky to me than a 870 or Mossburg. I have all four plus a few more pump shotguns.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by NDEBT View Post
I agree to a point but a model 12 winchester or a old Ithica feels less clunky to me than a 870 or Mossburg. I have all four plus a few more pump shotguns.
I agree,

The Ithica is a beauty, the 870 wingmasters (old ones) are also excellent. The Browning BPS is very similar to a 37, atleast my japanese one is.

Current pump assortment is

BPS 28
870 Wingmaster 12
Ithaca 37 lightweight 12
Benelli Nova 20
Sold a Benelli Nova 12 (way big)

have had a number of other pumps.

Have
AH Fox 12 sbs
Stevens 16 side by side
CSMC RBL 28 sbs matched pair
Ruger Red Label 20 o/u
Baikal IZH 20 o/u
Brazilian 20 sbs (unimpressive).

I'm sure there are some i'm forgetting about, always happens.

Point being Ithaca is a great shotgun, but there are others that are more universal, particularly if you want to modify it at all.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:38 PM   #26
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I recently saw a 410 Browning BPS. It was real odd looking being unlike the Winchester 42 it was not built to scale.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #27
P B G
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I recently saw a 410 Browning BPS. It was real odd looking being unlike the Winchester 42 it was not built to scale.

Very very few companies are building .410 shotguns on unique frame sizes, usually they're using the same action and hardware as they do on a 28 and often even on the 20's.

You get that iffy thing where the barrel looks like a pencil and then has a huge taper up into the reciever and a huge raised rib.

Crazy looking, much more attractive in the 28 flavor.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #28
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I can tell you it was designed by John Browning and is the US longest running production shotgun. They made millions of them.

The original design was sold to Remington and resulted in the model 17. Only produced from 1921 to 1933 in 20 gauge. A real feather weight and I have one.

Remington decided to shut down this model in 1933. Ithica decided to produce it, geared up and then found the patent did not expire until 1937. Hence the model designation and when the first guns were produced.

You can go here http://www.ithacagun.com/pdfs/serialnumbers.pdf and find the production date by serial number.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:03 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by P B G View Post
Sold a Benelli Nova 12 (way big)
While a little off topic, I guess we're discussing various pumps and the virtues or demerits of each. About 4 years back I picked up a Benelli SuperNova in 12/3.5" It was on sale and while I don't recall the exact price, think it was in the $450 range. I bought it to have as a spare, when my son visited from out-of-state for example, but primarily for turkey hunting. I didn't have a gun that handled the big 3.5" Roman candle-like shells. The gun is definitely big, and not real light although not too bad. But it shoots great, we've even used it for trap and sporting clays a few times.....with standard 2.75" target loads. The pump stroke is a little long, but again, not a real big deal. For an all around field gun, I'm actually quite impressed with it for the money.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:46 AM   #30
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While a little off topic, I guess we're discussing various pumps and the virtues or demerits of each. About 4 years back I picked up a Benelli SuperNova in 12/3.5" It was on sale and while I don't recall the exact price, think it was in the $450 range. I bought it to have as a spare, when my son visited from out-of-state for example, but primarily for turkey hunting. I didn't have a gun that handled the big 3.5" Roman candle-like shells. The gun is definitely big, and not real light although not too bad. But it shoots great, we've even used it for trap and sporting clays a few times.....with standard 2.75" target loads. The pump stroke is a little long, but again, not a real big deal. For an all around field gun, I'm actually quite impressed with it for the money.
+1 (though mine is the regular nova in 3.5")

I understand you can vitrually do anything with the 2.75" shells, but I like the idea that if I need ammo for whatever reason I can use any 12ga shell I find.
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