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Old 05-29-2012, 07:45 PM   #136
windmill
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Originally Posted by oppozit View Post
Perhaps you'd like to compare Irbit wages with North American wages and recalculate the price differential? Also DMC and CSM do ACTUAL custom outfits - not churn out 800 of the essentially same model. Try comparing apples to apples NOT apples to Chinese Gooseberries.
Yes,
But shipping materials from all over the world to the factory, the completed rigs to their final destinations, the need for EPA, and Dot certification of a motor vehicle in several countries meeting several standards, supporting a multi national dealer and distributing network, stocking spare parts, and many other things significantly marginalize the advantages of wages lower wages in Russia. Also these are things that the custom builders here in the US are not burdened with.

Yes it is apples to Chinese gooseberries, but the comparisons in question are fair and relevant none the less.



PS.
I'm shocked you are letting his extremely disparaging comments about Russia and the Russian people slide without comment, I'm of German/Italian decent and I found them offensive.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:54 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
A Urals price is about the economic realities of volume, not "value".

If you compair a Urals price to other low volume, hand built specialty bikes like Rokon, Confederate, Big Dog, or custom built sidecar rigs then their price seems like a real bargain. Ural builds around 1000 rigs a year, they just don't benefit from the advantages of volume the way a manufacturer who builds !00,000 or a 1000000 bikes a year does.

Look at what it costs to have DMC, or CSM do a custom rig, A lot of folks end up $30 K - $40 K into their rigs. Is that over priced compared to a Ural T's $10 K price tag? Certainly not, those custom rigs are carefully hand built in very small volumes, they dont do it as a public service or charity, they charge what they need it to provide the product and turn a profit the same as Ural.

Price, fair value, and value to an individual are very different things.

* snort * ... you might want to revise your production figures somewhat .



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Old 05-29-2012, 07:56 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by oppozit View Post
Perhaps you'd like to compare Irbit wages with North American wages and recalculate the price differential? Also DMC and CSM do ACTUAL custom outfits - not churn out 800 of the essentially same model. Try comparing apples to apples NOT apples to Chinese Gooseberries.
I don't know about Chinese Gooseberries, but to build a GS rig with 2wd and reverse, and a nice steel tub, then powder coat every piece on the bike, frame and tub, it's easily $30k plus, so that's apples to apples as far as functionality goes. For $15k the Ural is a comparative deal that goes about 10-15 mph slower cruise speed and has an unlimited mileage 2 year warranty. I'm pretty happy showing up a few hours later with an extra $15k plus in my bank account. But if I was a rich guy, I'd probably try one of them ubber rigs out......

Uh oh, is there a Beemer/Ural flamer coming, heheh? If so, after that we can finish up with an oil discussion.....
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #139
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* snort * ... you might want to revise your production figures somewhat .



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There are several motorcycle manufacturers who produce over 100,000 bikes a year, and doesn't Honda produce close to a million bikes a year?

yes? no?
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:18 PM   #140
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There are several motorcycle manufacturers who produce over 100,000 bikes a year, and doesn't Honda produce close to a million bikes a year?

yes? no?

You stated that Ural produces 1000 units per year . That number would be closer to their weekly output .
If you check Urals homepage you will see that they recently opened twenty two ( 22 ) new dealers globally . At a thousand units per year ... what are they all going to sell ? ... clothing ... that's harley's shtick ...
. Ural to date have already produced over 3.2 million units since production began . http://www.imz-ural.com/

Fuck honda , the conversation is about Urals


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Old 05-29-2012, 08:21 PM   #141
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You stated that Ural produces 1000 units per year . That number would be closer to their weekly output .



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I would like to see the proof of that. 52,000 Urals a year? Hard to believe.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:33 PM   #142
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I would like to see the proof of that. 52,000 Urals a year? Hard to believe.
Some one recently posted a you tube of the factory on this forum . From memory it was about 600 per week . They sell approximately ( google the word ) 800 a year in Russia alone and that number doesn't rate on their radar . So that would leave around ( a variation of approximate ) 200 for the rest of the world .


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Old 05-29-2012, 08:39 PM   #143
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Some one recently posted a you tube of the factory on this forum . From memory it was about 600 per week . They sell approximately ( google the word ) 800 a year in Russia alone and that number doesn't rate on their radar . So that would leave around ( a variation of approximate ) 200 for the rest of the world .


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600 per week??? I'd like to see proof of that. Over 30,000 per year? I doubt it.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:50 PM   #144
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Some one recently posted a you tube of the factory on this forum . From memory it was about 600 per week . They sell approximately ( google the word ) 800 a year in Russia alone and that number doesn't rate on their radar . So that would leave around ( a variation of approximate ) 200 for the rest of the world .
Those figures are from before the collapse of the Soviet Union - current production is about 800 and Russian sales are perhaps 20 - a lot has changed in the past 25 years or so. Catch up with reality FR700 ;-)
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #145
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600 per week??? I'd like to see proof of that. Over 30,000 per year? I doubt it.

So you doubt it . Big deal . What do I look like your research assistant ... I already provided one link to the factory web site .



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Old 05-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #146
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I am no expert, and the number are approximate,

Back in the 80's they employed over 10,000 people were producing upwards of 1500 rigs a day.

Fast forward to today, they employ approximately 150 people at the factory, 10 people at their headquarters in Redmond Washington and produce 800-1000 rigs a year. Their production low was in 2008 at around 450 rigs for the year.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:57 PM   #147
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Yes,
But shipping materials from all over the world to the factory, the completed rigs to their final destinations, the need for EPA, and Dot certification of a motor vehicle in several countries meeting several standards, supporting a multi national dealer and distributing network, stocking spare parts, and many other things significantly marginalize the advantages of wages lower wages in Russia. Also these are things that the custom builders here in the US are not burdened with.

Yes it is apples to Chinese gooseberries, but the comparisons in question are fair and relevant none the less.



PS.
I'm shocked you are letting his extremely disparaging comments about Russia and the Russian people slide without comment, I'm of German/Italian decent and I found them offensive.
I'm dealing with his comments about Russian products and Russians analytically - I intend to prove him wrong without a comeback. However your claims are ludicrous! Almost all certification is homogenised - if i meets US certification it meets EEC and ECE. Better find another excuse to justify IMWA raping the world's Ural markets.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:59 PM   #148
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So you doubt it . Big deal . What do I look like your research assistant ... I already provided one link to the factory web site .
Sorry, can't find that link . Please repost it.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:00 PM   #149
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So you doubt it . Big deal . What do I look like your research assistant ... I already provided one link to the factory web site .



.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You cannot provide the figures because they don't exist. First you say 1000 per week then 600 per week. You are just making it up as you go along. Sad Sad Stuff.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:01 PM   #150
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Sorry, can't find that link . Please repost it.
Scroll to the top of this page .


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