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Old 05-29-2012, 05:43 AM   #31
OZbeemer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
\
Here's the f'ing problem, the last bike you owned is over 9/14 years old now. Riding styles changed, and I am concerned again that you thrust yourself into topics you have no f'ng clue what you are saying.

Apparently you dont read, the guy expressed that is his a BIG guy. the 300 by default (pro or economy pro) come with softer riding setups, IE the Delorto is a proven carb with the average rider in mind. Then you can tweak the hell out of the bikes. then I explained, assuming (THE OP) might have read other arguements in other threads, and is scared the bike will spook him, which I dont, since he rides the 450 now, and I know women that ride the hell out of 450's, and they have had to learn to cope with that power, surely anyone els can (assuming again, they want to compete in trials) that some think the 300 is so fucking scary, so I explain that you can tweak bikes, becuase I have ridden and improved the bike to match more of what I feel like I wanted it to be, for me. It is easier to a point to detune, than it is to make the worthless 125, ride about like the 250-300. Period.

I have spent that money, been there done that, bought the f'ing T-Shirt, you havent! TWINSHocker! so shut up already, you make assumptions when you havent even owned ANY of the bikes or mods we're talking about.

I agree at a small point, MOST "new to motorcycles but are older than age 25, probably wont pick the rm450, for the 1st bike to learn to ride either. THAT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THIS WHOLE THREAD IS ABOUT>

But if I was going to start racing the bikes, and I have, then why would I handicap myself with my weight, and buy a trail 70? Are you fking nuts? We're talking about a person who is AROUND 250lbs and wants to commpete. He is only TALLTER than I have been most of my riding life...

LEts take this converstation back to the OP, this way...:

If I was asking the Motocross crowd about what bike do I want to be looking for, gave about the same info we got from the OP, and I told them I have a desire to start and compete in motocross:

So, you feel as though they would tell me to "stay away from the 250 2 strokes and the 450's?

Seriously
First off I never said anything about competing yet!!! I was looking for my entry into the sport. There are always two varying sides to the topics and usually this shit starts.

Yeah there are bikes that I would tell you to stay away from. My DRZ differed from my BMW G450x by only 50 cc's but is completely different type of bike. The 450's delivery of the HP is going to be different to a trials bike so I dont see the comparison to trials bikes when it comes to cc's

I also don't appreciate MY FUCKING THREAD getting filled with this shit. So thanks for that.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:14 PM   #32
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Not to kick a dead horse, but I think a larger displacement bike is better for a beginner. From what I have observed checking the morning categories (beginner-Intermediate), it takes a very good rider to keep a 125 running through the inevitable unexpected bumps. It's just so easy to put the fire out. The beginners, some of them new to motorcycles entirely, who run 250's seem to be much better off, as long as they stay on it, the bike can usually chug to the finish. If you can successfully manage the 450, you will not have an issue with a 280 or 300. If someone is having trouble with getting behind the bike and reving it out unexpectedly, put a block in the throttle.(TheGraydog did the same to my 3-wheeler) I rarely run past 1/2 throttle on my 300, big walls and trail being the exception. Up to that point, it is an incredibly mellow machine. And with its large flywheel and torque, it is very hard to kill the bike, and as mentioned, it is slower reving than many of the smaller machines. Now that I think about it, I would contend that my 300 is more forgiving to an inexpert rider than the smaller bikes Ive ridden.

Altitude is a consideration. At 7000 ft the 300 is probably more equivalent to a 250 or 280. We ride as high as 13000 at the Ute cup. Now the 300 is probably equivalent to a 125...

If you have any intention of riding any trail, the 300 is a must for heavier riders, having ridden my 300 and a couple of 280s quite a bit, I much prefer the 300. It isn't as quick, but it will pull 6th at altitude, which the 280 was not keen on. I don't know if TheGraydog has the same issue, but I have 30lbs on him, and you have another 50 on me.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:30 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by DerViking View Post
Not to kick a dead horse, but I think a larger displacement bike is better for a beginner. From what I have observed checking the morning categories (beginner-Intermediate), it takes a very good rider to keep a 125 running through the inevitable unexpected bumps. It's just so easy to put the fire out. The beginners, some of them new to motorcycles entirely, who run 250's seem to be much better off, as long as they stay on it, the bike can usually chug to the finish. If you can successfully manage the 450, you will not have an issue with a 280 or 300. If someone is having trouble with getting behind the bike and reving it out unexpectedly, put a block in the throttle.(TheGraydog did the same to my 3-wheeler) I rarely run past 1/2 throttle on my 300, big walls and trail being the exception. Up to that point, it is an incredibly mellow machine. And with its large flywheel and torque, it is very hard to kill the bike, and as mentioned, it is slower reving than many of the smaller machines. Now that I think about it, I would contend that my 300 is more forgiving to an inexpert rider than the smaller bikes Ive ridden.

Altitude is a consideration. At 7000 ft the 300 is probably more equivalent to a 250 or 280. We ride as high as 13000 at the Ute cup. Now the 300 is probably equivalent to a 125...

If you have any intention of riding any trail, the 300 is a must for heavier riders, having ridden my 300 and a couple of 280s quite a bit, I much prefer the 300. It isn't as quick, but it will pull 6th at altitude, which the 280 was not keen on. I don't know if TheGraydog has the same issue, but I have 30lbs on him, and you have another 50 on me.
"Using the info' supplied in your post ;I wouldn't recommend a 280 to anyone who is starting off in the sport ,they can bite and become tiring very quickly,I think it's a real experts bike..
I recall starting off with a new 250 Gas Gas that me and my brother went 1/2s on,it was great to blat around with on the drive but when we took it off road and marked out a course, it ate 2 new rear mud-guards,we couldn't keep the front end down unce:It put us right off the sport...Too much too soon.

You state your weight as 45 Kg so I reckon a 125 should fit the bill nicely(IMHO).
I rode one recently and it was a hoot, it teaches you good clutch/power technique (something else I'm lacking )"

Above copied and pasted from a UK forum.............posted in reply to female prospective trials rider, but would apply equally to any newcomer.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:29 AM   #34
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You guys worry too much. These low strung 2 stroke motors are so much more docile than say a motocross bike I hardly consider even a 300 cc bike too much for someone his size and weight. You will enjoy the hell out of any modern trials bike. Just find one in good shape for a good price and ride it!
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:30 AM   #35
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+1
We're not talking a CR500 here.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #36
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As a brand new trials rider who just picked up a 300pro I'll chime in. For me it's difficult to start but you have 100lb on me so you should be fine. I did a day at trials training center on mine yesterday, learned a ton and never found the extra power to be an issue. You might be able to get away with some stuff with more power but really who cares.

Sure maybe starting on a smaller bike would be better but as someone not planning on competing seriously if at all this one popped up for the right price so I jumped on it. I'm very happy with it and the extra 125cc will come in handy for trail duty.

Buy what you want and enjoy it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:16 PM   #37
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I'm 6'2" amd 218 and recently bought a cheap trials bike (and then bought another I could get parts for). Both were 280s. I also ride big 4-strokes and found both of the 280s much easier to manage and neither seemed to me to have too much power. I can't say the same about the Husky TC450 I used to ride - a little too much throttle with it and I could get into big trouble quickly. I ride a bit in the backyard with my two sons - one on an XR70 and one on a TTR125.

My observations from my experiences being new to trials: 1) try to find a bike that doesn't need lots of parts/work - what seems cheap up front may not end up that way since trials bike parts are expensive, 2) Make sure whatever bike you buy is still supported with factory parts, 3) Get one soon because they are a lot of fun.

Good luck
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:11 PM   #38
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Sounds like I will try to get to a local event and see if I can talk to a few members and see if there are some for sale. I am having a tough time finding something in an entry level price range. 1500-2000.

I shall keep looking and see If I can find something!! thanks

wittrider I may try to get to black river for the competition, although its the same weekend as the vintage bikes at Road America. leaning more towards the trials event though.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:36 PM   #39
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Wow there's a lot of debate about engine size!

Wouldn't Rider Size matter too? and Altitude? I'm thinking about getting a Trials bike instead of getting another Dirt Bike. I'm a big guy 6'1" 255 (hopefully going down), and live at 5000' would be riding probably more at 6-8K. I know my last dirt bike a KTM 525 had a power loss at 8,000' compared to at sea level.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dukeryder View Post
Wow there's a lot of debate about engine size!

Wouldn't Rider Size matter too? and Altitude? I'm thinking about getting a Trials bike instead of getting another Dirt Bike. I'm a big guy 6'1" 255 (hopefully going down), and live at 5000' would be riding probably more at 6-8K. I know my last dirt bike a KTM 525 had a power loss at 8,000' compared to at sea level.
Yes altitude makes a big difference. High altitudes are a good place to use the larger displacement Trials bikes.
After reading a few of these posts I think that the experienced riders that are being asked for advice are assuming that the prospective buyer wants to use the bike for what it was built for, Trials competition. That, apparently is frequently not the case. Those not wanting to learn, and compete in trials competition needen't worry about having too much power, however those wanting to learn the bike handling skills that are what trials is about, will in many cases be handicapping themselves with overly responsive machines.
Many, many, times I've seen a novice rider struggling to control the bike he's just bought, usually last years model that he bought from one of the local pros. Many times that rider never comes to another event.
By the way many newer 2 strokes have higher compression heads available that will mitigate the power losses at high altitudes.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Yes altitude makes a big difference. High altitudes are a good place to use the larger displacement Trials bikes.
After reading a few of these posts I think that the experienced riders that are being asked for advice are assuming that the prospective buyer wants to use the bike for what it was built for, Trials competition. That, apparently is frequently not the case. Those not wanting to learn, and compete in trials competition needen't worry about having too much power, however those wanting to learn the bike handling skills that are what trials is about, will in many cases be handicapping themselves with overly responsive machines.
Many, many, times I've seen a novice rider struggling to control the bike he's just bought, usually last years model that he bought from one of the local pros. Many times that rider never comes to another event.
By the way many newer 2 strokes have higher compression heads available that will mitigate the power losses at high altitudes.
+1

All trials bikes feel slow with soft power, if you're coming off of regular dirt bikes and just plonking around in the yard or riding trails. It's a big difference when you put up ribbons and are riding sections in an event.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:29 PM   #42
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Thanks for the input fellas

I keep going back and forth in my mind between getting another dirt bike or a trials bike. I'm new to Colorado and only spent 1 year in California so the bulk of my dirt riding experience came from when I lived down south riding in LA, MS, TX & FL. I can rip down deep sugar sand trails, through gumbo mud and the occasional tree rooted up section. BUT when it comes to rocky and hilly single track my skills are weak (about died of heat exhaust wrestling my old 525 MXC on double black diamond single track in the Sierras last summer). My thinking is if I get a Trials bike instead of another MX or Enduro bike I can sharpen my skills. I also like the idea of being able to just ride out into the field behind my house in the evening and fart around with obstacles.

Currently there's some cheaper bikes for sale locally that have caught my eye a 1998 Montessa 315 and a 2002 GG 280. The GG is advertised for $700 more than the Montessa. Should I avoid either one? Can I get heavier springs for the bikes? Every dirtbike I've had in the last 10 years I've need to put beefier springs in them in order for me to be able to ride them fast. I don't wanna hop off a rock or log and blow the shock or bottom so hard I crash.
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:48 AM   #43
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Well, you're definitely going to have an easier time on the rocky rutted stuff with a trials bike. It's like a bicycle compared to a 525. You'll also be able to use it in your backyard. On the other hand you're not going to set any records once the trail gets easier. Trials bikes work great on trails but it's sort of a love/hate thing. Some people really dig it while others prefer trail bikes. I love mine. Do a search on trail riding with trials bikes in here. It's been covered.

As far as the bikes you're looking at, both are good. The Monty has a somewhat rabid following as being the "best" but I prefer GG bikes. I've had both. The Montys hold resale better, some argue are more solidly built, but feel heavier in front. The 280, in my view, is a bulletproof motor and a solid bike. Both are from the "heavier" era and better suited to trail riding than the new Pro bikes which shaved weight for trials performance at the cost of structure. These slightly older ones hold up a little better to trail abuse. You can get heavier springs from Cannon Racecraft for the 280. I had some made for my 321 so they have the pattern now. You're welcome.

If you're not sure what to get for the tough trails, you may also consider a 200 2-stroke trail bike with a Rekluse clutch and left-hand rear brake. Most people will swear by KTM's, but Gas Gas 200 trail bikes are excellent values due to their lower resale. I use this setup on my Husaberg and it makes tough trails much more tolerable. The LHRB can easily be done using the existing clutch master cylinder and having a brake line made. The clutch slave is blocked off.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dukeryder View Post
My thinking is if I get a Trials bike instead of another MX or Enduro bike I can sharpen my skills. I also like the idea of being able to just ride out into the field behind my house in the evening and fart around with obstacles.

Currently there's some cheaper bikes for sale locally that have caught my eye a 1998 Montessa 315 and a 2002 GG 280. The GG is advertised for $700 more than the Montessa. Should I avoid either one? Can I get heavier springs for the bikes? Every dirtbike I've had in the last 10 years I've need to put beefier springs in them in order for me to be able to ride them fast. I don't wanna hop off a rock or log and blow the shock or bottom so hard I crash.
If you get into Trials competition you will certainly "sharpen your skills" and then some. If you buy a Trials bike for trail riding you will make your other bikes feel like big heavy pigs. Personally I don't like trail riding Trials bikes, you can't sit down and you have to carry extra fuel. I would rather ride Trials on a trail bike than trails on a Trials bike.

In 2002 there were two different 280 Gas Gas Trials models. The Pro version would be best avoided.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
If you get into Trials competition you will certainly "sharpen your skills" and then some. If you buy a Trials bike for trail riding you will make your other bikes feel like big heavy pigs. Personally I don't like trail riding Trials bikes, you can't sit down and you have to carry extra fuel. I would rather ride Trials on a trail bike than trails on a Trials bike.
One of the things that got me seriously considering purchasing a Trails bike is that at our local OHV area I see Trials guys EVERY time I drive my Jeep up there or ride by on the GS. I would probably agree with you 100% that a trail bike is better for trail riding than a Trails bike, but these trails here are rocky nasty hilly goat tracks from what I've seen so far (at least those nearest my house). 90% of the trail riding I've done was back in the South that was 100s of miles from the nearest rock and no hills (I got plenty of hill climbing experience at Hollister and Carnegie last year but those places aren't very rocky as well).

Quote:
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In 2002 there were two different 280 Gas Gas Trials models. The Pro version would be best avoided.
yeah it's a Pro "2002 GasGas txt 280 pro trials", so I guess I'll avoid that!
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