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Old 05-31-2012, 02:55 PM   #16
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........but Harley riders don't wear helmets, so we bought scoop shovels.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:04 PM   #17
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Good thread.

Although we shouldn't remove the helmet of a crash victim and wait til the EMTs arrive, there may be situations where the helmet needs to come off and the EMTs may not be forthcoming. In this case, it would be better to know how to remove the helmet than guess.

Good video.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tvpierce View Post
Great video!

It's clearly stated that removing the helmet is a last resort... but if it becomes necessary, it's good to at least have some idea of how to do it properly.

Thanks for posting.
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Good thread.

Although we shouldn't remove the helmet of a crash victim and wait til the EMTs arrive, there may be situations where the helmet needs to come off and the EMTs may not be forthcoming. In this case, it would be better to know how to remove the helmet than guess.

Good video.
See, this is exactly the problem with videos like that, that they make people think that they can go ahead and do it because they saw it on the internet.
These two guys are professionals and trained and they're showing the best case scenario of a rider lying straight on his back unconscious and they have done this a lot of times and know each other well. You (you here used in its broad generic term) coming up to an accident where the rider is unconscious, lying perfectly on his/her back, calling over a bystander to help you get the helmet off while the adrenalin is pumping and you're trying to do something you've only seen on youtube is as close to idiotic as humanly possible.
If you're not trained, leave the helmet on. There's plenty of room to make sure the airways are free and that is all an untrained first responder should worry about.
I have a hard time understanding why they would put up a video like this. I can't really think of a reason to take the helmet off unless you're trained in doing so.

Secure the accident area.
Make sure the airways are clear.
Check for vital signs.
Call for help or delegate it to someone else if there is one.

You can be in a world of hurt if you try to play EMT without even a first aid course behind you and worse, you can put another person in a world of hurt accidentally.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:32 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Oilybimmer View Post
I have been trained in helmet removal by the North West Ambulance service, even as a longtime helmet wearer it is surprisingly difficult to do, it goes some way to redeem my choice of a flip front job.
You are mistaken then. The problem with flip fronts is that there is insufficent clearance for the helmet to be removed without first flipping. A group of us almost lost a rider drowning in his own blood inside his helmet after he had a headon with an oncoming vehicle. The lock on the flip front jammed as a result of the collision and even the ambulance team could not remove the (schubert) helmet. Ultimately we had to wait for the fire brigade to arrive with their cutting tools to saw the front of the helemt off.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MADurstewitz View Post
I have stickers on my helmet that say not to remove helmet unless you are a doctor, etc.
This is a really good idea. Put the p-Touch to work.

I occasionally track cars with a Corvette club in MI, and my VW track club is adopting one of their rules: Helmet must have stickers (preferably p-Touch or other durable labeling device) with Name, Blood type, and Insurance numbers on the left side (facing driver's window), and "Do Not Remove Helmet" on both sides. I think they do this in LeMons, now, too. My bike helmet has all of this info on it, too, along with "Privat Versicherung" - "private health insurance" - so I get a decent bed in the hospital in Germany if I (FSM forbid) ever need one.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Balanzed View Post
I have a hard time understanding why they would put up a video like this. I can't really think of a reason to take the helmet off unless you're trained in doing so.

.
To educate people on how to do it WHEN NECESSARY to preserve life....

What if the person isn't breathing or choking on there own blood??....pretty hard to give mouth to mouth through a helmet...

I guess you would wait till the ambulance arrived while the person died when CPR could have been administered and saved them. It clearly states to not remove the helmet unless absolutely necessary....better to have some idea on how to do it than none at all.

As someone who has worked emergency services in a Fire Department and the Coast Guard I can tell you there are plenty of instances where removing a helmet would be necessary to save someone.

What I don't understand is how someone who rides would not want this knowledge....
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:08 AM   #22
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Good points, Offcamber. Sometimes action is necessary to save a life. Certainly no one is advocating performing heart surgery after watching an Internet video, but with proper training (either previous or proposed) it is good to know the technique.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Balanzed View Post
See, this is exactly the problem with videos like that, that they make people think that they can go ahead and do it because they saw it on the internet.
These two guys are professionals and trained and they're showing the best case scenario of a rider lying straight on his back unconscious and they have done this a lot of times and know each other well. You (you here used in its broad generic term) coming up to an accident where the rider is unconscious, lying perfectly on his/her back, calling over a bystander to help you get the helmet off while the adrenalin is pumping and you're trying to do something you've only seen on youtube is as close to idiotic as humanly possible.
If you're not trained, leave the helmet on. There's plenty of room to make sure the airways are free and that is all an untrained first responder should worry about.
I have a hard time understanding why they would put up a video like this. I can't really think of a reason to take the helmet off unless you're trained in doing so.

Secure the accident area.
Make sure the airways are clear.
Check for vital signs.
Call for help or delegate it to someone else if there is one.

You can be in a world of hurt if you try to play EMT without even a first aid course behind you and worse, you can put another person in a world of hurt accidentally.
As a rule... "world of hurt" trumps dead! Just sayin'.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
Ultimately we had to wait for the fire brigade to arrive with their cutting tools to saw the front of the helemt off.
Thats crazy! Starts to make you rethink your equipment.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #25
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Thats crazy! Starts to make you rethink your equipment.
probably the easiest helmet to remove is a 1/2 helmet, that doesnt make them the best choice. The truth is, when in a motorcycle crash, its all a crap shoot anyway. The best you can do is play the odds and hope for the best. The odds say the more between your body and the road, vehicle, gaurdrail, pole, ect the better off you will be in a crash. Those are just odds, there is always the chance that less may be best if you are a gambling man.
As for "never remove the helmet, just check for vitals". Whats the point in checking vitals if you arent going to remove the helmet. So if you loss the pulse or the breathing stops, ?????? You just stare at the unconscience dieing victim and say "sorry, cant remove your helmet". Thats the problem with sayinjg "never".
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:39 PM   #26
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When I was doing rescue work we didn't remove a helmet unless we really needed to. If you were breathing OK and reasonably stable then I strapped your helmet to a back board and loaded you in the bus still wearing it. I didn't do anything not absolutely necessary to stabilize somebody for the trip to the ER.

That said, my station was way out in the boonies so I also did some pretty gruesome quick and dirty things to keep people alive long enough for my EMT's to get there. I often didn't have to luxury of time or finesse. My only job then was to keep somebody breathing long enough to get them to the pros or for the pros to get to them.

That is still how I see first aid. If you will be OK long enough for the pros to arrive I will leave the hard stuff to them. If not, I am going to do whatever needs to be done to keep somebody alive. If I have to remove a helmet to do CPR so be it. Risk of further injury does indeed trump dead everytime.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #27
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When I had my wreck, I took my helmet off, as I didn't hit my head or even go down. The paramedic asked me to put it back on and I told him to shove it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:20 PM   #28
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Eh?

Any explanation given for wanting you to put the helmet back on?
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:37 PM   #29
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Any explanation given for wanting you to put the helmet back on?
Probably trying to cover his a$$, in case UnsureFooting had a nasty head injury (closed skull) and went unconscious in to a coma and never recovered. It'd be UnsureFooting's family trying to sue and without unbiased witness to the fact he took it off not the medic, etc, etc.

Or he was a new medic.
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:07 AM   #30
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Probably trying to cover his a$$, in case UnsureFooting had a nasty head injury (closed skull) and went unconscious in to a coma and never recovered. It'd be UnsureFooting's family trying to sue and without unbiased witness to the fact he took it off not the medic, etc, etc.

Or he was a new medic.

yeah I can't see any logical or medical reason to put it back on. You'd do more damage putting it on rather than just stabilizing the neck.
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