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Old 06-01-2012, 07:45 PM   #12961
riverman
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Hi Bross,

Nice bike my man. Okay, I have to be the first to ask. Can you give us a comparison to your previous Scrambler? Not a technical review, we can do that on the web. More of a seat of the pants, real world pros and cons of the XC versus the Scram for the back roads, two track, gravel roads we like to travel.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:57 PM   #12962
bross
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Originally Posted by riverman View Post
Hi Bross,

Nice bike my man. Okay, I have to be the first to ask. Can you give us a comparison to your previous Scrambler? Not a technical review, we can do that on the web. More of a seat of the pants, real world pros and cons of the XC versus the Scram for the back roads, two track, gravel roads we like to travel.
No comparison, while the Scrambler was a cool, fun bike, it was a compromise just about everywhere. It was heavy off road, lacked suspension travel, weaved at speed and rattled a lot. Having said all that I still had a blast riding it and would take it anywhere I'd take my DR but just a lot slower.

I think i said it earlier, the XC is a bike I've been waiting for someone to build, just a good all round bike, doesn't do any one thing well but a whole bunch of things OK. The XC is going to do all the things my CBF and DR used to do. I'll still keep the DR for bopping around trails with the kids on the quads but for any riding with my wife the XC will work just fine. The XC is a better bike than the CBF with the same power, and better suspension. In my limited time so far I'd say it's as good as the DR if not better for the type of riding I do which usually is just forest roads and two track, nothing to knarly.

My wife currently rides a Street Triple and her DR200 but she's already talking about getting a regular Tiger. The XC is a little tall for her but she could handle the "roadie". It's one of the problems with having multiple bikes to ride. Which bike do we want to ride today? Especially around here, we have tons of forestry roads but lots of good paved riding as well. With the Tiger you don't have to choose, just go.

Sorry, back to the Scrambler. I loved riding the Scrambler and my wife her Bonneville. They just take you back to simpler riding. They're basic bikes and most of the time that's all we need. But the Tiger is just so much better in all regards, I'd never consider a Scrambler again.

My wife and I both really enjoyed our "retro" Triumphs but love the modern ones way more.

bross screwed with this post 06-01-2012 at 08:19 PM
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:33 AM   #12963
blacktiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bross View Post
No comparison, while the Scrambler was a cool, fun bike, it was a compromise just about everywhere. It was heavy off road, lacked suspension travel, weaved at speed and rattled a lot. Having said all that I still had a blast riding it and would take it anywhere I'd take my DR but just a lot slower.

I think i said it earlier, the XC is a bike I've been waiting for someone to build, just a good all round bike, doesn't do any one thing well but a whole bunch of things OK.


Sorry, back to the Scrambler. I loved riding the Scrambler and my wife her Bonneville. They just take you back to simpler riding. They're basic bikes and most of the time that's all we need. But the Tiger is just so much better in all regards, I'd never consider a Scrambler again.
Having sold a Scrambler to get my XC I can second all of this. Especially the bold bits. +1
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:50 AM   #12964
ThomasVolomitz
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Love my XC, always wanted a scrambler because it looks so great. Then I test rode one and thought it was rather uncomfortable and a little boring. But man, looks awesome.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:25 PM   #12965
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Originally Posted by ThomasVolomitz View Post
Love my XC, always wanted a scrambler because it looks so great. Then I test rode one and thought it was rather uncomfortable and a little boring. But man, looks awesome.
When I bought my XC, I had myself talked into wanting a Scrambler as my one-up weekender. After the first 2 miles of test riding the Scrambler, I was searching for a shortcut back to the dealer. It suffered from the "3 U's"... Uncomfortable. Underpowered. Uninspiring. Thankfully, I was able to test drive one before buying as I probably would have bought one sight unseen, simply for the retro-factor.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:09 PM   #12966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasVolomitz View Post
Love my XC, always wanted a scrambler because it looks so great. Then I test rode one and thought it was rather uncomfortable and a little boring. But man, looks awesome.
I loved my Scrambler, and if I could have afforded it I would have kept it. For me, the Scrambler was a hot rod. Looked cool and was a blast to ride around town, and some short jaunts up in the mountains. But if you start to think about longer trips on it, well...

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Old 06-02-2012, 06:23 PM   #12967
riverman
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Thanks for the detailed response Bross. I was anxious to hear from someone who has had both bikes. For me, less and less two-up long distance means that I will be selling the 'wing and going with the Tiger XC. Should be a good complement to the WR250R (which is also an awesome bike for my type of useage).
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #12968
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Originally Posted by levain View Post
I've seen some of the seats in this thread from Corbin & saddleman. I'm wondering what your impressions are of the above, and whether you have gone the custom route? I had a Bill Mayer on my GS that was great. Also had a Sargent once upon a time, and that seat really fit my ass Too bad they're dragging their feet on production
The only stock seats on 50 or so bikes I've owned that I've been able to tolerate were on a 2005 K1200 LT, a 2008 Gold Wing, and a 2002 Moto Guzzi Le Mans. Every other seat on everything else I've ridden has inflicted varying degrees of torture, mostly right on the bony parts. In terms of aftermarket or accessory seats I've had a couple of Corbins, a Rick Mayer, a Harley Sundowner, a Triumph gel seat, and several Sargents. I've also used an Alaska Sheepskin and an Airhawk.

Seats are highly subjective. Considering that, I've found the Corbins to be the worst of the aftermarket seats. I had to send back the Corbin I bought for my FJR 1300 because it was a full inch (at least) shorter than the stock seat, which cramped my knees. The Corbin on my Harley was so rock hard it gave my girlfriend raging headaches after about an hour of riding. Their seat pans tend to weigh a metric ton, and don't always seem to fit the bike as well as the stockers they replace. However, you'll find those who love Corbins and won't buy anything else because Corbin seats fit their anatomy. Additionally, Corbin was very cooperative in working with me on that FJR to modify it and add the height they had originally taken away.

The Harley seat was decent for the money, about a 5 on a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the most comfortable. The Rick Mayer was about a 7.5. The Sargents have consistently been the best for me. The add on products like the sheepskin and air hawk tend to provide a "different" seating surface which temporarily alters the pressure points and provides very temporary relief, but it is always fleeting. However, the sheepskin is great at providing some ventilation and heat reduction.

I looked long and hard at the new Saddlemen, but I decided to pass for a couple of reasons. First, they refer to it as being very firm. I don't know if they mean Sargent firm or Corbin firm. The former is good, the latter is bad for me. Additionally, since much of my issue with seats is caused by the lack of much natural padding, I figure a channel cut through the middle of the seat that further reduces the total real estate supporting my body will only serve to put more pressure on those two bony parts that are always the source of my discomfort.

I seriously considered a Russell - the one seat I've never tried but always wanted to. However, I've seen a photo of one and thought it looked pretty ridiculous on this bike. Furthermore, I felt it would at least somewhat inhibit my ability to move around on the bike, something that gets more important on twisty roads or off pavement.

I want a Sargent but I've grown impatient waiting for them to release their Worldsport seat. I took a look at their custom seat services and shot a couple of emails back & forth with them. I finally decided I'd buy the Triumph Gel seat and try it, and if I wasn't happy with it at least I'd have a spare seat so I could send my original to Sargent.

It didn't take but a couple of hours to figure out the Triumph Gel seat for me was only a somewhat more comfortable version of the stocker, but since it has the same shape and design it causes the same pressure points for me. Additionally the gel really retains heat, and after the bike has sat in the sun for a while I can really feel the heat for about 20 minutes or so, which further exacerbates my discomfort issues. So I packed my stock seat up and sent it to Sargent. They received it today, should have it done in less than two weeks, and will send it back. I opted for them to widen and dish the seating area with super cell atomic foam, and level the seating surface from front to rear. The widening is limited to approximately an inch wider on each side of the seat, which should be enough for me. Some of those with wider posteriors might find the amount of widening room insufficient once the seating area has been dished. I suspect Sargent will probably solve this to a certain degree with their Worldsport seat pan, but that has yet to be seen.

I'll post photos as well as my experience once it comes back and I have a bit of time on it. Sargent cautions the purchaser of custom seat services that they don't always come out right the first time since it is difficult for them to figure out exactly what fits each person's anatomy, so I may have to send it back once. Additionally I'm sure it will need to break in for a while, but I'm confident if anyone can make a seat that will allow me to spend up to 24 hours on it at a time (like the sargents I had on my RTs) Sargent can.

The cost including return shipping and a new custom made seat cover was $315.00.

Sorry for the lengthy dissertation, but seats are so individual I thought the sum of my experience would be helpful to the user in determining what their discomfort issues are, and what seat options might be best for them. I have no affiliation with Sargent other than being a very happy repeat customer.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:01 PM   #12969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post

I'll post photos as well as my experience once it comes back and I have a bit of time on it. Sargent cautions the purchaser of custom seat services that they don't always come out right the first time since it is difficult for them to figure out exactly what fits each person's anatomy, so I may have to send it back once. Additionally I'm sure it will need to break in for a while, but I'm confident if anyone can make a seat that will allow me to spend up to 24 hours on it at a time (like the sargents I had on my RTs) Sargent can.

The cost including return shipping and a new custom made seat cover was $315.00.

Sorry for the lengthy dissertation, but seats are so individual I thought the sum of my experience would be helpful to the user in determining what their discomfort issues are, and what seat options might be best for them. I have no affiliation with Sargent other than being a very happy repeat customer.
Very interested in your impressions. I picked up a triumph gel seat on ebay over the weekend as a bit of an impulse since it was cheap ($90) and somehow my stock seat got a burn hole in the side of it. So, if I don't like the triumph gel seat I'll have my stock one to send out.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:23 PM   #12970
Hallwine
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I had a Scram and I took it on a long trip to north cape (top of Norway)
I really liked it and would probably have kept it a long time, But I got the tiger road and it is a far more comfortable and capable machine. I bought another...But I did love the Scram even if it was less competant in many ways...it was cool as owt, when funds allow I will probably get another Scram because they are a lot of fun and the coolest looking trumpet, just my 2hbobs worth. Tiger best for brain, Scram best for your heart....ymmv of course
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:25 AM   #12971
nhspirit
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Here are a couple pics with a sargent custom seat. Had it for about a year now. May need to send it back for an adjustment. Only slightly better than Triumph gel which was slightly better than stock for me. I do not have much padding naturally but sargents have always been comfortable for me on other bikes. Not sure if it's because of the width of the seat or the angle but still have pressure points after a few hours.

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Old 06-05-2012, 05:54 AM   #12972
fbj913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
The only stock seats on 50 or so bikes I've owned that I've been able to tolerate were on a 2005 K1200 LT, a 2008 Gold Wing, and a 2002 Moto Guzzi Le Mans. Every other seat on everything else I've ridden has inflicted varying degrees of torture, mostly right on the bony parts. In terms of aftermarket or accessory seats I've had a couple of Corbins, a Rick Mayer, a Harley Sundowner, a Triumph gel seat, and several Sargents. I've also used an Alaska Sheepskin and an Airhawk.

Seats are highly subjective. Considering that, I've found the Corbins to be the worst of the aftermarket seats. I had to send back the Corbin I bought for my FJR 1300 because it was a full inch (at least) shorter than the stock seat, which cramped my knees. The Corbin on my Harley was so rock hard it gave my girlfriend raging headaches after about an hour of riding. Their seat pans tend to weigh a metric ton, and don't always seem to fit the bike as well as the stockers they replace. However, you'll find those who love Corbins and won't buy anything else because Corbin seats fit their anatomy. Additionally, Corbin was very cooperative in working with me on that FJR to modify it and add the height they had originally taken away.

The Harley seat was decent for the money, about a 5 on a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the most comfortable. The Rick Mayer was about a 7.5. The Sargents have consistently been the best for me. The add on products like the sheepskin and air hawk tend to provide a "different" seating surface which temporarily alters the pressure points and provides very temporary relief, but it is always fleeting. However, the sheepskin is great at providing some ventilation and heat reduction.

I looked long and hard at the new Saddlemen, but I decided to pass for a couple of reasons. First, they refer to it as being very firm. I don't know if they mean Sargent firm or Corbin firm. The former is good, the latter is bad for me. Additionally, since much of my issue with seats is caused by the lack of much natural padding, I figure a channel cut through the middle of the seat that further reduces the total real estate supporting my body will only serve to put more pressure on those two bony parts that are always the source of my discomfort.

I seriously considered a Russell - the one seat I've never tried but always wanted to. However, I've seen a photo of one and thought it looked pretty ridiculous on this bike. Furthermore, I felt it would at least somewhat inhibit my ability to move around on the bike, something that gets more important on twisty roads or off pavement.

I want a Sargent but I've grown impatient waiting for them to release their Worldsport seat. I took a look at their custom seat services and shot a couple of emails back & forth with them. I finally decided I'd buy the Triumph Gel seat and try it, and if I wasn't happy with it at least I'd have a spare seat so I could send my original to Sargent.

It didn't take but a couple of hours to figure out the Triumph Gel seat for me was only a somewhat more comfortable version of the stocker, but since it has the same shape and design it causes the same pressure points for me. Additionally the gel really retains heat, and after the bike has sat in the sun for a while I can really feel the heat for about 20 minutes or so, which further exacerbates my discomfort issues. So I packed my stock seat up and sent it to Sargent. They received it today, should have it done in less than two weeks, and will send it back. I opted for them to widen and dish the seating area with super cell atomic foam, and level the seating surface from front to rear. The widening is limited to approximately an inch wider on each side of the seat, which should be enough for me. Some of those with wider posteriors might find the amount of widening room insufficient once the seating area has been dished. I suspect Sargent will probably solve this to a certain degree with their Worldsport seat pan, but that has yet to be seen.

I'll post photos as well as my experience once it comes back and I have a bit of time on it. Sargent cautions the purchaser of custom seat services that they don't always come out right the first time since it is difficult for them to figure out exactly what fits each person's anatomy, so I may have to send it back once. Additionally I'm sure it will need to break in for a while, but I'm confident if anyone can make a seat that will allow me to spend up to 24 hours on it at a time (like the sargents I had on my RTs) Sargent can.

The cost including return shipping and a new custom made seat cover was $315.00.

Sorry for the lengthy dissertation, but seats are so individual I thought the sum of my experience would be helpful to the user in determining what their discomfort issues are, and what seat options might be best for them. I have no affiliation with Sargent other than being a very happy repeat customer.
Thank you! For $315 it's worth a shot. I'm a skinny guy as well so I will be eager to hear your report back.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:46 AM   #12973
Bueller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhspirit View Post
Here are a couple pics with a sargent custom seat. Had it for about a year now. May need to send it back for an adjustment. Only slightly better than Triumph gel which was slightly better than stock for me. I do not have much padding naturally but sargents have always been comfortable for me on other bikes. Not sure if it's because of the width of the seat or the angle but still have pressure points after a few hours.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you had their custom seat services replace some foam, but retain the stock shape. Though their foam is better than you would likely find in either a stock seat or the triumph gel seat, it is both the forward lean and the shape of the stock seat that doesn't work for me. It appears your sargent seat in the photos retains both. This is the reason I am having them widen and dish the seat, to provide a greater area of support that is more contoured to provide support outward towards my hips. Additionally, I sat on the bike and had my girlfriend draw a level line across the side of the seat and am having Sargent level the seating area so it doesn't push me towards the tank. Hopefully I wind up with better results than you are describing.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:14 AM   #12974
OmenF1
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Anypne did cool journey with the 800 ? - Fully packed ..?

SUP you party people ?

I was looking for some ride reports from people on the tiger 800 / XC , but did not find much, except the 2 ladies that wrode that Alaskan trip..
I am also curious to know / see how she looks and handles fully packed, with camping gear etc ..?

Greetz

Omen

Btw, planning a cool trip myself on my Tiger 800 - John o groats to land's end OR nord to south of France on small roads..
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:50 AM   #12975
markbvt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmenF1 View Post
I was looking for some ride reports from people on the tiger 800 / XC , but did not find much, except the 2 ladies that wrode that Alaskan trip..
I am also curious to know / see how she looks and handles fully packed, with camping gear etc ..?

Look at the last two ride reports linked below in my sig.

The Tiger handles great even loaded for a trip.

--mark
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