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Old 06-20-2012, 07:58 AM   #46
f00gami
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Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyMan_ZA View Post
f00gami, this was such a great response, I really appreciate your effort, one cannot argue with such facts there is a most peculiar thing happening here, it can be argued if this is and 'by design' and acceptable? I don't however know if this is what is happening when I blip the throttle and the engine stalls, as you indicated it may be another issue altogether? Are you able to reproduce the ping/knock condition when you 'blip' your GSA, if so are you able to also provide these same graphs when that happens? It may be difficult to reproduce what I experience while riding but it only happens when I blip the throttle, such as in traffic when warning motorists of my presence, when I pull away from a standstill, downshifting or while I am riding technical stuff, however it 'sounds' and 'feels' exactly the same as when I blip the throttle as in the video clips I posted earlier.
In my driving style, I usually apply throttle blips during gear changes to rev match (just an "old" habit). Although I've never ever experienced engine stalls on my bike, this may be due to our riding styles being different. I completely agree with you that stalling under these circumstances is unacceptable.

Bliping the throttle harshly when my bike is idling DOES occasionally make the first detonation mis, or at least make it sound very harsh. In my daily work I work with engine control software but not that close to combustion control. Hence I'm not an combustion expert and have attributed the behavior of the R1200 engine during very very rapid "blips" to
- wire throttle in combination with the EFI system (compared to a system with an electronic throttle module) and
- a lean A/F ratio (due to modern emission requirements).

I guess the easy way to make the engine run richer is to fit the well-known Accelerator Cable, which essentially modifies the engine intake air temperature sensor value to be somewhat lower. Most posts on the internet regarding the Accelerator Cable have been quite positive in terms of improving low-end torque. However I have no idea if it would cure the response to throttle blips.

Something which might be interesting to try is bliping the throttle in netural from a slightly open position rather than from fully closed. Will the system react differently then?
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:52 AM   #47
CandyMan_ZA OP
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa /\/ŻŻŻŻŻ\/\
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
In my driving style, I usually apply throttle blips during gear changes to rev match (just an "old" habit)
I concur

Quote:
Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
- a lean A/F ratio (due to modern emission requirements)
I am convinced this is the issue, however I don't understand why Triumph and KTM (also EU) do not display any of these characteristics in any way, not even slightly

Quote:
Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
I guess the easy way to make the engine run richer is to fit the well-known Accelerator Cable, which essentially modifies the engine intake air temperature sensor value to be somewhat lower. Most posts on the internet regarding the Accelerator Cable have been quite positive in terms of improving low-end torque. However I have no idea if it would cure the response to throttle blips.
I have considered this and very willing to try it however it will void my warranty and it is quite expensive to import and 'try' if it makes no difference to the throttle blips. Same with a PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f00gami View Post
Something which might be interesting to try is bliping the throttle in netural from a slightly open position rather than from fully closed. Will the system react differently then?
I will try this again and report back but I have never experienced this if my memory serves me right. When blipping as I am about to engage gear when pulling away the throttle is in the fully closed position but when blipping during a downshift or while in traffic or while riding technical staff is another story, it is difficult to say if that is from a complete closed position, I will have to consciously take note of what I do and see if I can determine this. I will report back.

Thank you
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:33 AM   #48
CandyMan_ZA OP
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa /\/ŻŻŻŻŻ\/\
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyMan_ZA View Post
I concur
I will try this again and report back but I have never experienced this if my memory serves me right. When blipping as I am about to engage gear when pulling away the throttle is in the fully closed position but when blipping during a downshift or while in traffic or while riding technical staff is another story, it is difficult to say if that is from a complete closed position, I will have to consciously take note of what I do and see if I can determine this. I will report back.
I tried the blip test while my bike was stationary and in neutral, if I have the rpm at 1500 or anything higher it picks up revs instantly and smoothly, only when I blip the throttle from an idle (ie. 1150rpm) does it periodically cough and splutter (due to lack of the correct technical term that is happening ) before it picks up revs.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:39 AM   #49
stan23
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I know the idle is stepper motor controlled, but can the GS911 set idle speed? Maybe something like 200 rpms higher will solve your issue?
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:12 AM   #50
CandyMan_ZA OP
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa /\/ŻŻŻŻŻ\/\
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan23 View Post
I know the idle is stepper motor controlled, but can the GS911 set idle speed? Maybe something like 200 rpms higher will solve your issue?
It may very well resolve the 'erratic idle' as well as the 'intermittent splutter or stall on a throttle blip' but...

...will this be the correct way to fix it, the engine will still be running way too lean!? If so BMW need to do a recall and up the idle on all the R1200GS DOHC models

The correct fix is that BMW provide a proper working efficient and correct A/F map, simple
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:03 AM   #51
f00gami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan23 View Post
I know the idle is stepper motor controlled, but can the GS911 set idle speed? Maybe something like 200 rpms higher will solve your issue?
Nominal idle speed cannot be adjusted using the GS-911, not as of today anyway.

On BMW cars, there are service routines in the official service computers to make adjustments (add offsets) to nominal idle speed. I am unsure if similar functionality has been implemented by Motorrad.

/Gabriel
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:56 AM   #52
CandyMan_ZA OP
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa /\/ŻŻŻŻŻ\/\
Oddometer: 151
Pissed Anyone speak German?

Hi guys, this matter has still not been resolved. BMW South Africa are defiant and will not acknowledge that there is any issue. I still have this problem and have been contacted by many other riders who also experience this intermittent 'misfire' (or pre-ignition, detonation) on their 1200GS's. This seems to be more specific to the DOHC models and more so here in South Africa (although others have reported similar symptoms). I would like to post this to a German BMW motorcycle club forum and see if anyone there has an 'inside' technical contact in BMW Germany.

Most frustrating

Kevin
Cape Town
South Africa

CandyMan_ZA screwed with this post 10-15-2012 at 06:18 AM
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:07 AM   #53
freedomracer
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Having same problem in USA

I've had the same problem here in the US, 2011 GSA stalling occasionally when coming off idle with the clutch lever pulled in at traffic lights. It's at the dealer's now, after stalling while slowing down and not being able to restart it. of course it started right up when it got to the shop...
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:17 PM   #54
CandyMan_ZA OP
R1200GS-WP
 
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa /\/ŻŻŻŻŻ\/\
Oddometer: 151
R1200GSA pinging, detonation, knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomracer View Post
I've had the same problem here in the US, 2011 GSA stalling occasionally when coming off idle with the clutch lever pulled in at traffic lights. It's at the dealer's now, after stalling while slowing down and not being able to restart it. of course it started right up when it got to the shop...
Hiya feedomracer, you may be experiencing something different to what I am, even though my bike (and the others I have ridden) do sometimes stall when coming off idle with the clutch fully in they have always started right up afterwards. Please come back here and let us know what the dealer said.

Kevin
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #55
CandyMan_ZA OP
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Puke R1200GSA 2011 pinging, pre-ignition, detonation, misfire

A number of people have asked if this issue was ever resolved. My quick response is I no longer have this problem. In my longer response I am afraid they will ban me from this forum as I will have a lot to say about BMW Motorrad . I got rid of the 2011 ADV and bought a 2009 ADV. The 2009 is the last of the SOHC model. It runs sweet, same as my 2004 and 2007 did. Every single DOHC R1200GS (Standard and ADV) I rode experienced this same occasional erratic throttle response, misfire, pre-ignition and pinging
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:51 AM   #56
Fibzzz
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Location: Bergen County, NJ
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throttle blipping

I have an '11 GSA that has never stalled, but does occasionally bog momentarily when I crack the throttle to match revs while downshifting. I chalked it up to the character of the engine, and found it likes "rolling" the throttle a bit more deliberately, instead of a rapid blip. I very rarely experience the issue now, and it's never seemed like a serious flaw. I've ridden enough old Harleys to know what REAL fueling/carburetion flaws feel like!

I apologize for the hijack, but I'm curious why rev-matching with the throttle on downshifts is no longer "necessary" or appropriate. I've been riding that way since I was 12 years old, to use engine braking without the abrupt engagement of a lower gear, and figuring it was easier on my clutch and trans. What am I missing?
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:46 AM   #57
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyMan_ZA View Post
A number of people have asked if this issue was ever resolved. My quick response is I no longer have this problem. In my longer response I am afraid they will ban me from this forum as I will have a lot to say about BMW Motorrad . I got rid of the 2011 ADV and bought a 2009 ADV. The 2009 is the last of the SOHC model. It runs sweet, same as my 2004 and 2007 did. Every single DOHC R1200GS (Standard and ADV) I rode experienced this same occasional erratic throttle response, misfire, pre-ignition and pinging
This forum is not associated with BMW Motorad. You can say what you like.

That said, be factual, and no gnashing of teeth if you expect to betaken seriously.

Jim

PS You should know this since you have been here since 2004.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:43 AM   #58
DSTEVENS
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My 2013 will stall occasionally if you blip the throttle from idle, it seems to only do it when there is someone to watch me restart it. And on occasion it has acted like it has a massive racing cam, at stop lights it has done this twice. Shakes sputters and spits, and I usually throttle it a little and it will go away and run fine for weeks or months, and then do it again. 4300 miles. Very little oil consumption too, so I am so happy. Best wishes. D.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:14 PM   #59
kk3an
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I also had a very pronounced detonation / pre-detonation issue caused by throttle blips with my '13 GSA.

Removed the exhaust flap and the problem went away 100%. No throttle body sync, no nothing - just replaced the exhaust flap with a straight section of pipe and the issue was gone.

Dan
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #60
DSTEVENS
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Originally Posted by kk3an View Post
I also had a very pronounced detonation / pre-detonation issue caused by throttle blips with my '13 GSA.

Removed the exhaust flap and the problem went away 100%. No throttle body sync, no nothing - just replaced the exhaust flap with a straight section of pipe and the issue was gone.

Dan
Hey Dan, just wondering about removing exhaust valve, does it start or run different? I like the idea of more noise, I love the sound after mine gets hot, it seems to make more noise the warmer the outside temp. I started it under the gas station roof after 3 hours of 80mph in 106* temps and I thought muffler had came loose it was so loud. Excuse hijack please D.
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