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Old 06-29-2012, 01:41 PM   #13306
levain
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Originally Posted by Jblk9695 View Post
That's the best thing said so far on the continuing debate, especially the Rossi comment, laughed out loud at that one, thanks.

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Old 06-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #13307
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Hey all - does anybody know how much the normal centerstand raises the rear wheel off the ground on a Roadie?
Looks to be about an 1 1/2", with stock Pirelli Scorps.

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Old 06-29-2012, 01:50 PM   #13308
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Just honest about my abilities. Not sure about others
Every single bit helps when you are as slow as I am ...
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:51 PM   #13309
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Originally Posted by Jblk9695 View Post
Looks to be about an 1 1/2", with stock Pirelli Scorps.
Excellent. That would mean that if I raise the rear by 15mm it'll still be off the ground. I don't have a centerstand yet, therefore had to ask here.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:41 PM   #13310
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Originally Posted by turboICE View Post
If a road bike for 2 up touring is your primary decision point between these two adventure bikes (because Triumph has better road bikes for 2 up touring than the Tigers), I think the XC is going to be the winner.

I have ridden both on-road and off-road and while the F diameter does affect turn in the difference is insignificant. Your entry speed needs to be slightly lower or more accurately you want to get more weight to the front when you turn in, but through the rest of the turn they are pretty much the same.

The primary reason many feel the XC is as competent on the road is primarily because the suspension itself is better on the XC - everyone who understands the interplay of the components and handling, attributes the similarity between the two on the road to the suspension of the XC overcoming the F diameters.

For 2 up touring as ridden off the showroom floor I believe the XC would be the better choice even for a 90/10 usage. In a 2 up situation even on the road and in twisties the better suspension is going to matter much more than a 19 vs 21 F diameter. I just can't imagine in a 2 up situation on twisties trying to find the difference in turn in between the two different diameter F wheels. Unless your pillion wants you to be much more aggressive than any I have had or known.

If you are willing to improve the suspension then the difference in F diameter will become more apparent.

I think the choosing of a bike for 2 up on the road is a different decision than a bike for twisties.

I have to say for 2 up touring at a 90/10 usage, I am not sure why anyone would pick an adventure bike. Any bike can handle 90/10, you don't need an adventure bike for that.

Get the Trophy SE or the Sprint GT, I think you would be much happier.
I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone. It has helped me sort through the differences of the two models. Turbo's post here, as well as some of the others, and the conversations I've had with my other riding buddies, has confirmed what I suspected, that the road performance of the XC will be sufficient while provide a cushier ride, and something more adventure oriented for my solo trips. Plus, coming from a dirtbike background, it just makes sense for me to have a bike that can manage more aggressive terrain. We tend to seek this stuff out.

And I know it sounds confusing, or that I have an odd priority of how or what I am trying to make the choice on.

The reason I keep asking about two up is because the wife has started coming along on some road trips on the Versys and it's pretty cramped, plus no extra room for some gear for some light touring and overnighting. So that was part of the reason to look for a bigger bike. But she doesn't go that often so when she doesn't I wanted a bike that would be a better adventure bike than the Versys, and something for over-the-road in a way that my Husky TE630 is not. Hence my initial strong interest in the T800 roadie. And hence why I had already ruled out the sport tourers and road bikes, attractive as some of them are. I also wanted something fun for around town, afternoon recreation riding, and something with a little more pizzaz. The tigers have that, and they're light and easy to ride.

I was also very interested in the new Super Tenere, as well as R1200GS, Ducati Multistrada, Triumph Tiger, and KTM 990. The 'strada got scratched pretty quick, it's too much $$ and too finicky, and it's really for all road going. The Tiger 1050 is also all-road, although they are a relative bargain these days. The KTM is the other way, fantastic offroad, but said to be not so hot for 2-up or long road trips. Plus it has its own issues with finicky and difficult maintenance, fueling, and it's heavy. The weight thing is what swayed me away from the Tenere and the GS. I REALLY liked the Tenere, but geez, it's a big bike. The GS is not so bad, and I would probably be happy with one, they are great 2-up trip bikes, but they don't give me much excitement. They are just too, well, bland.

So that brought me back to the Triumph. Lightweight (relatively), smaller adventure bike that would take two riders and some gear, fun to ride etc...well I don't have to explain it to you guys. Then I test rode it and whoa, it went from 'interesting' to 'gotta have'. I was blown away. So much so I don't even want to ride my Versys any more. It's that much better. Of course it's twice the money too.

A lot of the ADV'rs I ride with do a lot of dirt roads, and they tend to get into some more difficult sections and I just know the XC is the better tool for that. But the primary use for me will be as a streetbike, occasionally 2-up. So I wanted to make sure the softer suspension and 21" front wheel wasn't going to detract from my primary usage. And of course we slow down a lot with a passenger, that's just a given. I just didn't want a lethargic, wallowing marshmello when touring with the wife. Obviously the XC is going to do great for what we want.

I think I would have been happy with a roadie, but the XC is going to check ALL the boxes. So I'm picking up a new white one tomorrow.

Thanks again, it's a great community of riders.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:39 PM   #13311
T
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Good choice. They're quite versatile....on and off road.

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Old 06-29-2012, 05:14 PM   #13312
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Is the road model significantly better for road than the XC? I'm still trying to decide which model to buy. I expect 90/10 for road. And I want a really good road bike for 2 up touring. If either is superior for that then that is the way I would go. I keep thinking I should be going with GS or Tenere for 2-up, but I really like the lightweight and handling of the Tiger, not to mention it costs a lot less. Power wise I know it will be fine.

I'm always skeptical about owners of XC's that say how great they are in the twisties but admit they've never been on a sportbike. And likewise, how good they are offroad when admittedly they have very little dirt experience.

In just a spin around the block I found the XC to have slower turn in than the roadie. I can imagine a series of sweepers would have you struggling with getting the bike to lay over and turn. I'm not real excited about the wide bars either.

There are too many owners that have bought the wrong model and want to change. I don't want to be one of them.

Have you ridden both models to compare? That you have significant road experience lends credence to your opinion. Thanks!
I know at this point you've pretty much answered your questions, but this is the first chance I've had to get back here.

Truthfully I think you're *almost* splitting hairs on both accounts, meaning that although the XC is a better equipped motorcycle for off pavement use it's not so much better than you'd feel significantly lacking on a roadie in the places you would typically take a bike this size. There's always the exception like the bloke down under who takes a V-Strom to places I'd have trouble taking my Jeep Rubicon , but for the rest of us I believe either version of the Tiger would be very good both on and off pavement. Of course the XC would be better off pavement. It probably has a bit wider gap in performance compared to the roadie when the off pavement stuff gets rough than the roadie has on the XC on tight, twisty pavement.

At least when comparing stock bike to stock bike.

But no one ever leaves a bike completely stock. And that's where I think a bit more difference comes into play. The new Michelin Pilot Road 3 Trails available in Roadie sizes are fantastic street tires. You can't get a 21" version. Since 90/10 tires are mostly an off pavement joke, the PR3T's probably don't give up a hell of a lot off pavement to the Pirellis my Tiger came with, though I have only had a few miles off pavement since I installed the PR3T and am probably not a competent enough off pavement rider to tell you exactly how much difference exists. But I am a very competent on pavement rider, and my bike sees just as much bad weather as it does good weather. I do not enjoy the Pirellis in the rain, and even worse in the cold rain. Knobbies of any kind are even worse. The Michelins definitely improve wet pavement grip, even more so than they do dry pavement grip. The XC's suspension that certainly gives it an advantage off pavement is potentially a bit worse for aggressive cornering on pavement, but it depends on road conditions. However, that same suspension is more plush and comfortable for long days.

What it all comes down to is each one is a compromise, a conglomeration of certain characteristics in a class of motorcycle that is by it's very design a compromise and conglomeration of many individual classes of bike. Any time you build a motorcycle to be a sport bike, touring bike, off road bike, two up bike, pack mule, etc., you are getting a compromise of all of these things, and it shows. But Triumph has managed to come up with a VERY well rounded package. One has a bit more dirt slant, one has a bit more pavement slant. Both lose to a sport bike in the twisties, or a dirt bike when off pavement, or a touring bike when traveling. How much or how little you want to give up in each of these categories should guide you to the right decision. Personally, being an aggressive rider on pavement and a somewhat timid rider off pavement the choice was easy and clear. The tubes and spokes of the XC made the choice even easier. The roadie has kept me relatively comfortable on multi thousand mile trips, kept me well entertained on twisty pavement, and is capable of delivering more than I know how to ask of it off pavement. It was as close to the "right" bike as I could get. Unfortunately my SO doesn't necessarily agree, as she misses the GL1800 I sold a couple of months ago. If you want your wife to be happy on a Tiger, don't EVER let her ride on the back of a modern Gold Wing
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:29 PM   #13313
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Just one more data point on tire choices.

Below are both Anakee2 fronts, the first a 100/90-19 bias-ply and the second a 110/80-19 radial. The amount of tread on the narrower tire did not run very far up the side and all tire markings at the edge were completely erased in a couple hundred miles, no chicken strip, and way, way before erasing markings on the rear. The wider tire had what I felt to be a much great wrap around of the tread and I cannot erase the markings at the edge and still have a good chicken strip, at least on the front, which makes me feel more comfortable. I've also seen the Anakee2 in 90/90-21 and it appears to have even less tread wrap-around than the 100/90, and it too only comes in bias-ply. However neither tire actually slipped on me, so I can't say I rolled over the edge on the narrower tire.

The mileage difference, however, is unbelievable. The bias-ply is shown at 2,400 miles and the radial at 6,000 miles. Same rider, same roads.



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Old 06-29-2012, 06:30 PM   #13314
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Bueller - I laughed when I read your comment about not letting your wife on the back of a modern Goldwing and then getting her on a Triumph. I am in the same situation. Have had two GL1800's now and really like them for their intended purpose but will be selling and going to a Tiger XC next year. Wifey will not be quite happy but then again she is going less on the bike than she used to in previous years.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #13315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
I know at this point you've pretty much answered your questions, but this is the first chance I've had to get back here.

Truthfully I think you're *almost* splitting hairs on both accounts, meaning that although the XC is a better equipped motorcycle for off pavement use it's not so much better than you'd feel significantly lacking on a roadie in the places you would typically take a bike this size. There's always the exception like the bloke down under who takes a V-Strom to places I'd have trouble taking my Jeep Rubicon , but for the rest of us I believe either version of the Tiger would be very good both on and off pavement. Of course the XC would be better off pavement. It probably has a bit wider gap in performance compared to the roadie when the off pavement stuff gets rough than the roadie has on the XC on tight, twisty pavement.

At least when comparing stock bike to stock bike.

But no one ever leaves a bike completely stock. And that's where I think a bit more difference comes into play. The new Michelin Pilot Road 3 Trails available in Roadie sizes are fantastic street tires. You can't get a 21" version. Since 90/10 tires are mostly an off pavement joke, the PR3T's probably don't give up a hell of a lot off pavement to the Pirellis my Tiger came with, though I have only had a few miles off pavement since I installed the PR3T and am probably not a competent enough off pavement rider to tell you exactly how much difference exists. But I am a very competent on pavement rider, and my bike sees just as much bad weather as it does good weather. I do not enjoy the Pirellis in the rain, and even worse in the cold rain. Knobbies of any kind are even worse. The Michelins definitely improve wet pavement grip, even more so than they do dry pavement grip. The XC's suspension that certainly gives it an advantage off pavement is potentially a bit worse for aggressive cornering on pavement, but it depends on road conditions. However, that same suspension is more plush and comfortable for long days.

What it all comes down to is each one is a compromise, a conglomeration of certain characteristics in a class of motorcycle that is by it's very design a compromise and conglomeration of many individual classes of bike. Any time you build a motorcycle to be a sport bike, touring bike, off road bike, two up bike, pack mule, etc., you are getting a compromise of all of these things, and it shows. But Triumph has managed to come up with a VERY well rounded package. One has a bit more dirt slant, one has a bit more pavement slant. Both lose to a sport bike in the twisties, or a dirt bike when off pavement, or a touring bike when traveling. How much or how little you want to give up in each of these categories should guide you to the right decision. Personally, being an aggressive rider on pavement and a somewhat timid rider off pavement the choice was easy and clear. The tubes and spokes of the XC made the choice even easier. The roadie has kept me relatively comfortable on multi thousand mile trips, kept me well entertained on twisty pavement, and is capable of delivering more than I know how to ask of it off pavement. It was as close to the "right" bike as I could get. Unfortunately my SO doesn't necessarily agree, as she misses the GL1800 I sold a couple of months ago. If you want your wife to be happy on a Tiger, don't EVER let her ride on the back of a modern Gold Wing

You are very articulate and I couldn't agree more. The yellow hilite is what I came to learn. And I don't mind slowing down, I do anyway - I'm not sportbike rider, too chicken. I still hate blind corners after thousands of miles on road. And I slow down 2 up so as long as it will cruise I'll be happy. Before I take delivery tomorrow we are both getting on it and run up the freeway a stint and make sure it's happy there.

The orange highlight is a gem and also what I was able to learn from this thread, and from trying out the different bikes. It's not gonna suit everybody, but as long as it suits me we're cool, right? Obviously there's a few here that agree. Everybody likes their bikes and no one is whining about them breaking. I like that.

When it came down to it, it only made sense with my history of dirtbike riding, over 40 years now. I'm buying it as a roadbike so the offroad capablity comes as a big bonus to me. The local guys like to ride lots of dirt roads and it's fun, so having a bike that can do it is just cool. This is my grocery getter and fun around town bike, ride to work half the time (5mi), and that's why I liked the triple so much. Compared to the s10 or GS it's just a lot more fun. I just hope it's smooth and fast on the freeway too.

Spokes don't bother me, I already have the habit of tuning them, and I've changed so many tires that I can almost do it with my eyes closed, so pulling a tube doesn't bother me. I rarely get a flat. And I don't ride in rain unless I'm forced to, I'm a fair weather rider. Plus the spoked wheels are absolutely stronger and if you bend a rim you just raplace the rim, not the whole wheel. It just seems natural to have spokes on a motorcycle wheel, it's old school I guess.

I don't like that there is no seperate subframe. And I'll probably have a custom seat made, at least for the pillion.

I've put about 5K miles on the scorp trails on my Versys and my experience has been that they are fantastic tire. But I don't ride in the rain. Air down to 20lbs they grip dirt road surface like velcro. Obviously they are worthless in sand or mud. I will probably get a set of K60's for it, see how they run on the road.

Thanks for the input. I'm pretty excited about putting some miles on this one. I can already tell I'm gonna love it so much more than the old bike. Motorcycle pashion I guess.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:44 PM   #13316
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800 vs XC

My decision to buy the XC was primarily longer suspension travel for a smoother ride. My other road bike being a ST2 Ducati which has a taught 5" of travel. In the last year having done 9700 miles I'm pleased with my choice for comfort, handling, and the moderate off road I've done so far. First with oem Battle Wings, now with Heidenau Scouts the bike hands fine with only a sliver of chicken strip showing. I would of never believed a 21" equipped bike handling as such. The main benefit I see in the 800 Roadie is the ability to plug a flat and lower seat height, but at the cost of lower clearance and slightly stiffer ride. A friend of mine has a KTM 950 Adventure running MT21 front/Dunlop bow tie rear and keeps up with most sport bike riders. That's why I took a chance and have not looked back.......
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:32 PM   #13317
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Installed my Happy Trails panniers today.



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Old 06-29-2012, 11:01 PM   #13318
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Installed my Happy Trails panniers today.

These look really nice.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:55 AM   #13319
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Those bags look like they were made for that bike, which they were. Those are the best looking luggage available for the Tiger IMHO.
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Old 06-30-2012, 05:57 AM   #13320
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Those bags look like they were made for that bike, which they were. Those are the best looking luggage available for the Tiger IMHO.
+1 ...based on everything I have seen have to agree. I like that they are symmetrical! And the gap on the left side looks like a great place for a tool tube
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