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Old 07-01-2012, 06:38 AM   #31
Cortez
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:53 AM   #32
Pilgrim21784
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I recently bought a '12 Silverwing, having just unloaded my '09 TMAX and '09 MP3 400. My purchase decision was heavily based on availability of ABS, which is unavailable on either unit (in the US - Europeans have had ABS TMAXs available for several years, the MP3s don't offer it). I won't ride paved roads without an ABS bike/scooter, just my preference.

TMAX vs Silverwing - for general riding (not hotdogging) either one is an excellent choice (ignoring the ABS issue). The TMAX is roughly 60lbs. lighter and a bit easier to handle around the garage and get on the center stand. The SW is a bit more of a chore to handle, particularly re: the center stand function.

On the road, the TMAX is a tad bit more flickable but you really have to be pushing it to exceed the Silverwings capabilities. The MAX is fast and its hard not to find yourself riding a bit faster than intended. The SW has a more sedate feel but more than than adequate power and is very capable in the twisties for most applications.

The SW is a very fine ride in just about any situation and is a very stable. I'd basically say that the differences are moot unless you're into really pushing the envelope at high speed. For generally riding, whether around town, twisties or slab, both of them are quite satisfying and competent rides.

If your orientation is very high end hotdogging, the TMAX is a better choice, but don't expect to leave the SW completely in the dust. Yes, you can cut the tight curves a bit faster but you'd better be a really skilled rider to do so and the SW won't be far behind you. For a long distance tourer, I'd say the SW has the nod but its not a huge difference, either one would work.

Ergonomics are a totally personal matter, but my preference is for the SW. Its lower seat height permits flatfooting for me (5' 8.5") while the TMAX was a bit taller than I preferred. Dependability on both units is excellent and dealership/service availability is probably equal.

Overall, they are both very fine rides, but without ABS - the TMAX had to go. My riding environment is deer infested backroads and ABS has saved my butt in quite more than one situation. When Yamaha USA finally clears the old, non-ABS TMAX inventory and imports the ABS TMAX, I'll be one of the first buyers. There is enough difference to make it a fine stablemate to my SW and I always have at least two rides on hand. JMO
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:30 AM   #33
mrnoitall
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Here is a link from a 2011 Maxi scooter shootout. Four riders, Three of them picked the Tmax, The fourth liked the Burgman because it was a big comfy couch.. or words to that effect.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/14/103...-My-Money.aspx


Here are some quotes.

“The Yamaha TMAX was the clear winner of the day. Performance-wise, none of the other scooters came close"

"The TMAX proved itself to be very versatile and easily out-performed all the other scooters here in a variety of different manner; whether it’s freeway commuting, tight city navigating, or leisurely beach cruising'

" it’s not only quick, but agile as well, and it has a great set of brakes on it." You will have fun taking this scooter on day rides or just putting around town.

"Hands down the best of the bunch.”

"there’s no question the Yamaha destroys the competition."

" it's almost seems unfair; the others never stood a chance"

"When you have a properly quick little machine that handles like an entry-level sport-bike, can fit a human head under the seat will do stoppies on the brakes, and yet still features the convince of an automatic transmission, there’s no comparison."


This is more or less the feeling I came away with but while I agree with many of the things the poster above said, I don't think you have to push the limits and race around in order to experience the superior performance of the TMAX. You can feel it going 25mph and entering your first turn. Having said I also liked the Burgman for different reason.. The SilverWing, I kept for two months and sold it. Just did'nt do it for me.
My response was directed to the person who talked about the Swing and Burgman easily outperforming the TMAX. Not even almost.

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Old 07-01-2012, 10:00 PM   #34
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mrnoitall

Not carping with your preferences whatsoever, but I'm a bit surprised you didn't care for the SW at all. Having just come off my TMAX to the SW I wasn't overly disappointed with its performance compared to the TMAX. No question the Max is more sport bike oriented but I haven't found the SW lacking in any general performance areas for my riding style. To each their own.

I have noticed that I don't have a tendency to be going faster than intended with SW - on the TMAX, that was a frequent experience. Thats probably a good thing for me

It was inexplicable that the referenced Shootout comparison (Kymco Xciting 500Ri, Yamaha TMAX, Aprilia’s Scarabeo 500ie & Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive) didn't include the SW. I'd have been curious to see the rankings were it included. Its also unfortunate that they didn't include an MP3 500, could have been a much better assessment had they included both, IMO.

My view considers the 650 Exec as a mini Goldwing - great ride but at 613 lbs. too heavy for me. I wasn't real comfortable with it on some of the tight farm roads I frequent compared to the alternatives but a buddy who owns one is perfectly happy with it and we ride the same roads. The SW nicely fits the bill for everyday rides, whether slab or backroads, for me and importantly, at 551 lbs. is at the top of my weight comfort zone.

The Max is unquestionably in a class by itself and at 489 lbs. easier to deal with, but absent ABS, it had to go. I miss it and look forward to getting another one when the ABS unit is available here in the US.

I view the 650, SW and TMAX fulfilling somewhat different, yet overlapping riding segments. They are all excellent rides - it simply depends on which one fits an individual's personal preferences. To say that one is better than the other (I'm not referring to your comments) indicates to me that the "assessor" is uninformed and lacks real world experience with the 3 scooters.

As noted previously, I've owned a TMAX & SW; my 650 experience is limited to a few hundred miles on a buddy's scooter - outstanding on the highway, super plush ride, huge power - but I could never handle/live with it due to its weight.

Its a bit amusing that some comments came from people who have never ridden or owned maxi-scooters and/or others who presume that owners of other scooters give a rat's ass what someone else rides. Such is life. Ride safe.

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim21784 View Post
mrnoitall

Not carping with your preferences whatsoever, but I'm a bit surprised you didn't care for the SW at all. Having just come off my TMAX to the SW I wasn't overly disappointed with its performance compared to the TMAX.
I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that I was riding a Yamaha Morphous at the time which was the most stable and smoothest two wheeled vehicle i've ever owned. It was embarrassingly slow getting up to speed but ran like a train on tracks at 65mph. After getting used to the Morphous, the Silver Wing seemed like a truck. It vibrated a lot, made more noise than I thought it should and believe it or not did not feel as stable and secure on the highway compared to the Morphous.

The bike had 800 miles on it when I bought it, Another shocker was the fuel economy. I was using it for the same daily commute which was about 30 round trip miles mostly highway. I never figured the mileage out exactly but I was putting a LOT more money into the gas tank compared to my smaller bikes... No surprise there.
I did'nt give it much of a chance. I only put a few hundred miles on it. It was mostly the vibration , more so things on the bike vibrating.. not feeling it in the seat. The CVT made lots of vibrating noise.
I thought perhaps something was off with the bike but many others who owned the bike said the same thing.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
The CVT made lots of vibrating noise.
I thought perhaps something was off with the bike but many others who owned the bike said the same thing.
The rollers are an essential replacement on the Silver Wing. I put some Dr. Pulleys in mine and it smoothed the bike out so much.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #37
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The rollers are an essential replacement on the Silver Wing. I put some Dr. Pulleys in mine and it smoothed the bike out so much.
I'm not big on mods, I find that as human beings, we often perceive different as better. It's hard to image why the rollers in the Swing would cause issues considering Honda's vast experience designing scooters. It's also irritating to me that one should have to spend more money to address issues on a $9000 scooter.

With respect to changing out rollers, I always think of the guy on youtube who "upgraded" the rollers on his TMAX and damaged the bike when the final gearing could not handle the increase in torque caused by the lighter weights.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
I'm not big on mods, I find that as human beings, we often perceive different as better. It's hard to image why the rollers in the Swing would cause issues considering Honda's vast experience designing scooters. It's also irritating to me that one should have to spend more money to address issues on a $9000 scooter.

With respect to changing out rollers, I always think of the guy on youtube who "upgraded" the rollers on his TMAX and damaged the bike when the final gearing could not handle the increase in torque caused by the lighter weights.
Lighter rollers would not increase torque. They would just hold it in a lower gear longer. Engine still puts out the same torque and transmission is designed for the engine out-put regardless of the belt position.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
I'm not big on mods, I find that as human beings, we often perceive different as better. It's hard to image why the rollers in the Swing would cause issues considering Honda's vast experience designing scooters. It's also irritating to me that one should have to spend more money to address issues on a $9000 scooter.

With respect to changing out rollers, I always think of the guy on youtube who "upgraded" the rollers on his TMAX and damaged the bike when the final gearing could not handle the increase in torque caused by the lighter weights.
There was a definite shudder on the Silver Wing as the stock rollers got spinning. It didn't last long and was not awful, but I put in the sliders and it went away. I agree with you on a lot of mods, but this is definitely better than stock. I can't even say that the sliders would benefit all bikes, but it is a common upgrade for the Swing because it is great at smoothing out the bike.

I put in 2g lighter weights, but I don't know how much that really changed the bike. I could have easily put in sliders that were the same weight as stock but I thought, best case scenario, I added a bit of speed on my takeoffs.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:43 AM   #40
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:48 AM   #41
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Lighter rollers would not increase torque.
It wont effect the amount of torque the engine produces but it if you do not believe it effects the torque that it "transferred" to the rear wheel, try taking 50% of your rollers out and see what happens. The point of changing the rollers (for most) is to get the engine rpm into the peak torque/horsepower range. If the pullys are desgned to operate (open and close) at a certian rpm, or within certian perimeters, significantly changing the speed of that operation effects the torque transferred to the rest of the transmission/wheel.

Quote:
They would just hold it in a lower gear longer.
and at the same time getting you in a higher gear faster.

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Old 07-05-2012, 07:23 AM   #42
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double post
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:36 AM   #43
Cortez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
I'm not big on mods, I find that as human beings, we often perceive different as better. It's hard to image why the rollers in the Swing would cause issues considering Honda's vast experience designing scooters. It's also irritating to me that one should have to spend more money to address issues on a $9000 scooter.
Ecology/emissions regulations make most of the bikes like that..
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:49 AM   #44
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Ecology/emissions regulations make most of the bikes like that..
. They can't produce a scooter free of excessive vibration due to the EPA?
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:55 AM   #45
Cortez
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Originally Posted by mrnoitall View Post
. They can't produce a scooter free of excessive vibration due to the EPA?

we were talking about why they put 'wrong' weights in there.

weghts=revs=emmisions..
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