Aviation MegaThread!!!! - Page 226

Klay · 07-09-2012, 10:44 PM

Also, the jets in the add-on include effects of G-forces. If you fly in cockpit view and pull a tight turn at speed, your vision blacks out starting at the periphery.

chazbird · 07-10-2012, 07:49 AM

...but when you start to see the gray out with a simulator you can still reach for that cup of coffee sitting next to the mouse......However, there's a good deal of evidence that motion simulators in airline training add little, if any, added training benefit but they do add a lot expense. I'm not ragging on desk-top sims, I think for initial exposure they probably are quite good. For example, I know very little about helicopters and maybe using a desk top sim I could get at least the basics down.

Klay · 07-10-2012, 12:22 PM

So far, I have been utterly unable to control any helicopter I try on the simulator.

chazbird · 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM

What helicopter sim did you try?

It is said if you can fly the simulator you'll have little or no trouble with the actual aircraft and so far for me that seems to be true. Although...I heard a story of a helicopter sim instructor when faced with the actual aircraft did terrible with it. Could have just been a story.

mfp4073 · 07-10-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazbird

What helicopter sim did you try?

It is said if you can fly the simulator you'll have little or no trouble with the actual aircraft and so far for me that seems to be true. Although...I heard a story of a helicopter sim instructor when faced with the actual aircraft did terrible with it. Could have just been a story.

I am almost the opposite. Sims have always been hard for me to work with. With no inertial feedback, limited sight, etc. All of my actual flight time (less than 10 hours at this time) has been very easy and made MUCH more sense on what I need to be doing and when.

EvilGenius · 07-10-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfp4073

I am almost the opposite. Sims have always been hard for me to work with. With no inertial feedback, limited sight, etc. All of my actual flight time (less than 10 hours at this time) has been very easy and made MUCH more sense on what I need to be doing and when.

I get the feeling the quality and expense of the simulator make a big difference.

EvilGenius · 07-10-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klay

So far, I have been utterly unable to control any helicopter I try on the simulator.

They can be finicky bastards.

Often you have to input left or right rudder as you add or subtract collective to keep 'em straight.

Smithy · 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM

I have flown nearly every FS since SubLogic 1.0 for the old Apple. I also hold a (now expired) sailplane license, have sat in the jumpseat of a 737-400, and a C-141, while in flight. On the 737 I enjoyed an hour up front, including the entire landing sequence and taxi to the ramp before I decamped back to my seat.

What I'll say, is FS's have the potential to teach the fundamentals of flight, if the student is paying attention and doesn't turn all the controls to the "easy" side. Unlink your rudder from your ailerons, turn on all the realism settings so your gyro wanders, manually set your IFR radios and instruments, and you have a fair idea of what cockpit management can be like. The dynamics of actual flight will be easy for some, difficult for others. Much depends on your eye-hand coordination, steady stomach, fear of heights, and intuitive attention to detail.

Spending months on an FS will prepare you for some things, especially ground school, air control and navigation issues (if all that's on), and the primary essentials of lift, drag, axis of control, slip/skid, stalls, spins, etc.

Cockpit time has no substitute, either for effective teaching, or the fun factor.

chazbird · 07-10-2012, 05:17 PM

The thing about simulators is to take it as a fork in the road situation. Ask yourself am I ever going to want go on to actual flight? If there's that chance then I think most people's approach needs to changed. Playing around is fun, but one would have to, or should, apply oneself to a more disciplined approach because down the road you'll have a lot of techniques or styles that will really need some serious undoing, and there would be a good chance you'd be spending more time (and money) doing that than if you started from scratch. I've instructed in transport aircraft sims and I coach in swimming. I see people all the time who didn't learn the better swim techniques years ago, and some of them, most actually, have a real tough time changing. The people in the sim? Not so much. They started out with an intentional goal and made sure all their time counted before moving up to that aircraft.

koncha · 07-10-2012, 05:59 PM

Maybe I should have framed the sim discussion better.

I am talking about VFR in a 172. Just the beginner, first 50 hours stuff.

X-Plane 10 is getting high marks for the physics.

The cost of the computer isn't really a factor. I am already on the hook for a new one before school starts. The controls and software would be an incremental expense.

Smithy · 07-10-2012, 06:14 PM

Get good controls, then, not a $50 Saitek joystick. You want a yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals, to best mimic the student experience.

koncha · 07-10-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy

Get good controls, then, not a $50 Saitek joystick. You want a yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals, to best mimic the student experience.

I was thinking about the Cessna pack from Saitek.

Smithy · 07-10-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koncha

I was thinking about the Cessna pack from Saitek.

This one?

http://www.pilotmall.com/product/Sai...acturer-Saitek

Looks cool.

Trixie · 07-10-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barike

Sat Wars. The early years.

PvtIdaho · 07-10-2012, 08:28 PM

The historians managed to track down the details on the P-40 that was found earlier in the year.

Article here

Quote:

He was hundreds of miles from civilization, lost in the burning heat of the desert.
Second World War Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping took what little he could from the RAF Kittyhawk he had just crash-landed, then wandered into the emptiness.
From that day in June 1942 the mystery of what happened to the dentist’s son from Southend was lost, in every sense, in the sands of time.

Quote:

He must have survived the crash because one photo shows a parachute around the frame of the plane and my guess is the poor bloke used it to shelter from the sun. The radio and batteries were out of the plane and it looks like he tried to get it working.

07-09-2012, 10:44 PM	#3376
Klay plainsman Joined: Nov 2005 Location: out in the great wide open Oddometer: 89,131	Also, the jets in the add-on include effects of G-forces. If you fly in cockpit view and pull a tight turn at speed, your vision blacks out starting at the periphery. __________________ _______

07-10-2012, 12:22 PM	#3378
Klay plainsman Joined: Nov 2005 Location: out in the great wide open Oddometer: 89,131	So far, I have been utterly unable to control any helicopter I try on the simulator. __________________ _______

07-10-2012, 04:03 PM	#3383
Smithy Avoiding the Skid-Demon Joined: Jan 2005 Location: 22310 Oddometer: 6,733	I have flown nearly every FS since SubLogic 1.0 for the old Apple. I also hold a (now expired) sailplane license, have sat in the jumpseat of a 737-400, and a C-141, while in flight. On the 737 I enjoyed an hour up front, including the entire landing sequence and taxi to the ramp before I decamped back to my seat. What I'll say, is FS's have the potential to teach the fundamentals of flight, if the student is paying attention and doesn't turn all the controls to the "easy" side. Unlink your rudder from your ailerons, turn on all the realism settings so your gyro wanders, manually set your IFR radios and instruments, and you have a fair idea of what cockpit management can be like. The dynamics of actual flight will be easy for some, difficult for others. Much depends on your eye-hand coordination, steady stomach, fear of heights, and intuitive attention to detail. Spending months on an FS will prepare you for some things, especially ground school, air control and navigation issues (if all that's on), and the primary essentials of lift, drag, axis of control, slip/skid, stalls, spins, etc. Cockpit time has no substitute, either for effective teaching, or the fun factor. __________________ *Chris, Proprietor of* *The Tidewater Forge* Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.

07-10-2012, 06:14 PM	#3386
Smithy Avoiding the Skid-Demon Joined: Jan 2005 Location: 22310 Oddometer: 6,733	Get good controls, then, not a $50 Saitek joystick. You want a yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals, to best mimic the student experience. __________________ *Chris, Proprietor of* *The Tidewater Forge* Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.

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07-10-2012, 07:49 AM	#3377
chazbird Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2009 Oddometer: 2,055	...but when you start to see the gray out with a simulator you can still reach for that cup of coffee sitting next to the mouse......However, there's a good deal of evidence that motion simulators in airline training add little, if any, added training benefit but they do add a lot expense. I'm not ragging on desk-top sims, I think for initial exposure they probably are quite good. For example, I know very little about helicopters and maybe using a desk top sim I could get at least the basics down.

07-10-2012, 12:53 PM	#3379
chazbird Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2009 Oddometer: 2,055	What helicopter sim did you try? It is said if you can fly the simulator you'll have little or no trouble with the actual aircraft and so far for me that seems to be true. Although...I heard a story of a helicopter sim instructor when faced with the actual aircraft did terrible with it. Could have just been a story.

07-10-2012, 05:17 PM	#3384
chazbird Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2009 Oddometer: 2,055	The thing about simulators is to take it as a fork in the road situation. Ask yourself am I ever going to want go on to actual flight? If there's that chance then I think most people's approach needs to changed. Playing around is fun, but one would have to, or should, apply oneself to a more disciplined approach because down the road you'll have a lot of techniques or styles that will really need some serious undoing, and there would be a good chance you'd be spending more time (and money) doing that than if you started from scratch. I've instructed in transport aircraft sims and I coach in swimming. I see people all the time who didn't learn the better swim techniques years ago, and some of them, most actually, have a real tough time changing. The people in the sim? Not so much. They started out with an intentional goal and made sure all their time counted before moving up to that aircraft.

07-10-2012, 05:59 PM	#3385
koncha . Joined: Feb 2005 Oddometer: 9,779	Maybe I should have framed the sim discussion better. I am talking about VFR in a 172. Just the beginner, first 50 hours stuff. X-Plane 10 is getting high marks for the physics. The cost of the computer isn't really a factor. I am already on the hook for a new one before school starts. The controls and software would be an incremental expense.