ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Shiny things
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 275 votes, 4.97 average. Display Modes
Old 07-10-2012, 07:49 AM   #3376
chazbird
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Oddometer: 3,235
...but when you start to see the gray out with a simulator you can still reach for that cup of coffee sitting next to the mouse......However, there's a good deal of evidence that motion simulators in airline training add little, if any, added training benefit but they do add a lot expense. I'm not ragging on desk-top sims, I think for initial exposure they probably are quite good. For example, I know very little about helicopters and maybe using a desk top sim I could get at least the basics down.
chazbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #3377
Klay
dreaming adventurer
 
Klay's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: right here on my thermarest
Oddometer: 98,634
So far, I have been utterly unable to control any helicopter I try on the simulator.
Klay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #3378
chazbird
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Oddometer: 3,235
What helicopter sim did you try?

It is said if you can fly the simulator you'll have little or no trouble with the actual aircraft and so far for me that seems to be true. Although...I heard a story of a helicopter sim instructor when faced with the actual aircraft did terrible with it. Could have just been a story.
chazbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:36 PM   #3379
mfp4073
Beastly Adventurer
 
mfp4073's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Central Florida
Oddometer: 2,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
What helicopter sim did you try?

It is said if you can fly the simulator you'll have little or no trouble with the actual aircraft and so far for me that seems to be true. Although...I heard a story of a helicopter sim instructor when faced with the actual aircraft did terrible with it. Could have just been a story.

I am almost the opposite. Sims have always been hard for me to work with. With no inertial feedback, limited sight, etc. All of my actual flight time (less than 10 hours at this time) has been very easy and made MUCH more sense on what I need to be doing and when.
__________________
1974 BMW R90/6 Bettie #1, 04 Triumph Bonneville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank
loner, lonegunman, get it. That’s the whole point. I like the lifestyle, the image. Look a the way I dress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoodsoil View Post
Cavemen must've designed them shortly after inventing the wheel.
mfp4073 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #3380
EvilGenius OP
1.5 Finger Discount
 
EvilGenius's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Oddometer: 20,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfp4073 View Post
I am almost the opposite. Sims have always been hard for me to work with. With no inertial feedback, limited sight, etc. All of my actual flight time (less than 10 hours at this time) has been very easy and made MUCH more sense on what I need to be doing and when.
I get the feeling the quality and expense of the simulator make a big difference.
__________________
"Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy

"Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother
EvilGenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:52 PM   #3381
EvilGenius OP
1.5 Finger Discount
 
EvilGenius's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Oddometer: 20,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay View Post
So far, I have been utterly unable to control any helicopter I try on the simulator.
They can be finicky bastards.

Often you have to input left or right rudder as you add or subtract collective to keep 'em straight.
__________________
"Try turning that burn into torque. Then we're getting somewhere. Riding the potato to work seems quite impractical." - anotherguy

"Never bring a Nerf gun to a shovel fight." - My Brother
EvilGenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #3382
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,665
I have flown nearly every FS since SubLogic 1.0 for the old Apple. I also hold a (now expired) sailplane license, have sat in the jumpseat of a 737-400, and a C-141, while in flight. On the 737 I enjoyed an hour up front, including the entire landing sequence and taxi to the ramp before I decamped back to my seat.


What I'll say, is FS's have the potential to teach the fundamentals of flight, if the student is paying attention and doesn't turn all the controls to the "easy" side. Unlink your rudder from your ailerons, turn on all the realism settings so your gyro wanders, manually set your IFR radios and instruments, and you have a fair idea of what cockpit management can be like. The dynamics of actual flight will be easy for some, difficult for others. Much depends on your eye-hand coordination, steady stomach, fear of heights, and intuitive attention to detail.

Spending months on an FS will prepare you for some things, especially ground school, air control and navigation issues (if all that's on), and the primary essentials of lift, drag, axis of control, slip/skid, stalls, spins, etc.

Cockpit time has no substitute, either for effective teaching, or the fun factor.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:17 PM   #3383
chazbird
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Oddometer: 3,235
The thing about simulators is to take it as a fork in the road situation. Ask yourself am I ever going to want go on to actual flight? If there's that chance then I think most people's approach needs to changed. Playing around is fun, but one would have to, or should, apply oneself to a more disciplined approach because down the road you'll have a lot of techniques or styles that will really need some serious undoing, and there would be a good chance you'd be spending more time (and money) doing that than if you started from scratch. I've instructed in transport aircraft sims and I coach in swimming. I see people all the time who didn't learn the better swim techniques years ago, and some of them, most actually, have a real tough time changing. The people in the sim? Not so much. They started out with an intentional goal and made sure all their time counted before moving up to that aircraft.
chazbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #3384
koncha
.
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Oddometer: 10,044
Maybe I should have framed the sim discussion better.

I am talking about VFR in a 172. Just the beginner, first 50 hours stuff.

X-Plane 10 is getting high marks for the physics.

The cost of the computer isn't really a factor. I am already on the hook for a new one before school starts. The controls and software would be an incremental expense.
koncha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:14 PM   #3385
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,665
Get good controls, then, not a $50 Saitek joystick. You want a yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals, to best mimic the student experience.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #3386
koncha
.
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Oddometer: 10,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
Get good controls, then, not a $50 Saitek joystick. You want a yoke, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals, to best mimic the student experience.
I was thinking about the Cessna pack from Saitek.
koncha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:32 PM   #3387
Smithy
Avoiding the Skid-Demon
 
Smithy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: 22310
Oddometer: 7,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by koncha View Post
I was thinking about the Cessna pack from Saitek.

This one?

http://www.pilotmall.com/product/Sai...acturer-Saitek

Looks cool.
__________________
Consultant, Geospatial Science at Viking Geographic LLC Always Exploring
Proprietor of The Tidewater Forge Hot iron is my passion. Fire is my mistress. Let's dance.
35 Years of Scouting Blog for Bushcrafting and Boy Scouting experiences.
Smithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #3388
Trixie
No, not that Trixie
 
Trixie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Central MA
Oddometer: 3,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barike View Post

Sat Wars. The early years.
__________________
----------------------------------------------------
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything- Einstein

Trixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:28 PM   #3389
PvtIdaho
Deck Spotter
 
PvtIdaho's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Guam
Oddometer: 2,020
Update on the P-40 found in Egypt

The historians managed to track down the details on the P-40 that was found earlier in the year.

Article here

Quote:
He was hundreds of miles from civilization, lost in the burning heat of the desert.
Second World War Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping took what little he could from the RAF Kittyhawk he had just crash-landed, then wandered into the emptiness.
From that day in June 1942 the mystery of what happened to the dentist’s son from Southend was lost, in every sense, in the sands of time.
Quote:
He must have survived the crash because one photo shows a parachute around the frame of the plane and my guess is the poor bloke used it to shelter from the sun. The radio and batteries were out of the plane and it looks like he tried to get it working.
__________________
"Ain't nobody ever got the "Go" code yet." -- Major Kong
PvtIdaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:39 PM   #3390
Daniii
geezer
 
Daniii's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Plano Tx
Oddometer: 22,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by PvtIdaho View Post
The historians managed to track down the details on the P-40 that was found earlier in the year.

Article here
My dad dropped troops in N Africa during "Torch", after flying from England, through the Gibraltar straights, and over to their targets. They circled until the troops took the field so they could land. I asked what "Plan B" was.

He said it was to fly South and look for a flat place to set it down.

Fortunately, they didn't have to use that plan.

They did get captured twice over the next week, once by the Italians, then by the Germans, before the main body of troops came up from the beachead. He came home with a Baretta, which my son now has.
Daniii is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014