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Old 07-29-2012, 06:19 AM   #2596
stevie88
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Where are the guzzis?

I'm here at Monterey for the MotoGP race. Walking around the bike parking areas and strolling cannery row in the evenings I've yet to spot a single Guzzi. There was a cool streamlined V7 displayed by a vendor......but that's the extent of my Guzzi sightings thus far.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:18 AM   #2597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
I know some of you aren't going to want to pay up for this stuff, but you must trust me when i say that a re-mapped ECU, a Power Commander V, an Auto Tune, coupled with a slip-on will absolutely transform the motor into an ultra-smooth running, air cooled big twin. ya gotta believe me on this one (I'd suggest Todd @ GuzziTech to help you with the aforementioned), it will make all the difference in the world.
As far as the handling goes, don't they handle marvelously for the weight they carry? Such a capable bike in that respect, and all about the chassis if you ask me (the rear shocks used to be notoriously bad).
Thanks Obie, once one experiences a perfectly fueled Guzzi, there's no turning back. Suspension on the pre-'12 Stelvio were way too soft unless you weigh less then 170 lbs. with gear. I haven't been able to swing a leg over a '12 yet, but I look forward to seeing what they did (if anything), to improve it.
I'm happy to be of help for those who want to get them very sorted... I offer a myriad of options found on my Forum linked below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
And I agree re. fixing the fueling. I will likely go the PCV w/ AutoTune route. In theory the PCV can now adjust both open and closed loop areas of the OEM map, but I see it's still listed as "coming soon" for the '12 Stelvio. I guess I better start saving my $$$ for when it's ready.....
Congrats on the new ride! I LOVE my '09.
I've been addicted to perfecting F.I. Guzzis since ~'01, and have since worked directly with Dynojet as their technical advisor for all things Guzzi. If you live in the Southwest US, and you have a '12 Stelvio, contact me for advanced info regarding news for the PC-V. The reason new PC-V's exists for the newer Guzzi is, well, me. Certainly the Power Commander V (PC-V) & 02-optimizer is pretty good, and I'm a dealer for them as well. The FatDuc and most variable resistor type 02-sensor "foolers" have proven to not work (too rich of fueling and F.I. lights). Dynojet's 02-optimizer is fairly complex and works well. But, if you want perfect fuel bliss, my full kit (ECU mod, PC-V & AutoTune) is pure heaven.

If your stock bike isn't idling well, chances are it has improper valve lash and the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is not within spec. Take it back to the dealer and demand their attention.

There's a ton of good info in the Stelvio section of my Forum at GuzziTech.com - or feel free to reach me direct, any time with questions; Todd at GuzziTech.com
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:15 AM   #2598
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Originally Posted by RacerX-V2 View Post
Congrats on the new ride! I LOVE my '09.
I've been addicted to perfecting F.I. Guzzis since ~'01, and have since worked directly with Dynojet as their technical advisor for all things Guzzi. If you live in the Southwest US, and you have a '12 Stelvio, contact me for advanced info regarding news for the PC-V. The reason new PC-V's exists for the newer Guzzi is, well, me. Certainly the Power Commander V (PC-V) & 02-optimizer is pretty good, and I'm a dealer for them as well. The FatDuc and most variable resistor type 02-sensor "foolers" have proven to not work (too rich of fueling and F.I. lights). Dynojet's 02-optimizer is fairly complex and works well. But, if you want perfect fuel bliss, my full kit (ECU mod, PC-V & AutoTune) is pure heaven.

If your stock bike isn't idling well, chances are it has improper valve lash and the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is not within spec. Take it back to the dealer and demand their attention.

There's a ton of good info in the Stelvio section of my Forum at GuzziTech.com - or feel free to reach me direct, any time with questions; Todd at GuzziTech.com
Thanks Todd. If I remember correctly from my Norge days, the full kit you list above (ECU Mod + PCV + AT) is in the neighborhood if $1500?? If you don't feel comfortable putting prices in a post, just PM me.

FWIW, the guys at DynoJet now claim to have a solution for the 0-4k rpm range, which I think is what your ECU Mod does for the older PCV/AT combo. Is that right? Just curious as to what my options are, and why one solution may be better than another.

As you can imagine, for the lay-person, this stuff is beyond rocket science to try to understand. What I do know though is these types of solutions are "the answer" to fixing the uber-lean condition at lower RPMs, which causes all sorts of issues from poor throttle response to excessive heat.....and with a 1200cc air/oil cooled motor, anything that can be done to reduce heat is a good thing!

Thanks!

-SM
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #2599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Thanks Todd. If I remember correctly from my Norge days, the full kit you list above (ECU Mod + PCV + AT) is in the neighborhood if $1500??
FWIW, the guys at DynoJet now claim to have a solution for the 0-4k rpm range, which I think is what your ECU Mod does for the older PCV/AT combo. Is that right?
What I do know though is these types of solutions are "the answer" to fixing the uber-lean condition at lower RPMs, which causes all sorts of issues from poor throttle response to excessive heat.....and with a 1200cc air/oil cooled motor, anything that can be done to reduce heat is a good thing!
On the Fueling options, everything is outlined here; http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/208/2686.html - again, contact me direct with questions please.
Dynojet's solution is called the 02-optimizer as noted above. It is a band-aid fix (uses sensor offset), but it works fairly well, unlike most of the others on the market, but is only available with a PC-V.
Uber-lean fueling at low throttle is well proven (per link above), and it's only going to get worse on air/oil cooled mills with increasing/stringent emissions. These motors are largely fuel cooled, and starving them of it makes them run hotter, and greatly reduces power (and IMO, longevity).
My $.03.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:53 AM   #2600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX-V2 View Post
On the Fueling options, everything is outlined here; http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/208/2686.html - again, contact me direct with questions please.
Dynojet's solution is called the 02-optimizer as noted above. It is a band-aid fix (uses sensor offset), but it works fairly well, unlike most of the others on the market, but is only available with a PC-V.
Uber-lean fueling at low throttle is well proven (per link above), and it's only going to get worse on air/oil cooled mills with increasing/stringent emissions. These motors are largely fuel cooled, and starving them of it makes them run hotter, and greatly reduces power (and IMO, longevity).
My $.03.
Thanks for the reply and the link Todd. Much appreciated.

I'll follow up with you directly.

Have a great weekend!

-SM
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #2601
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great thread this with some very usefull info
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Old 07-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #2602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX-V2 View Post
once one experiences a perfectly fueled Guzzi, there's no turning back.
Todd,

I'm coming around

I really have no complaints about the fueling, mine runs very good. But I'm at elevation and a slightly lean condition is not a bad thing. It's encouraged.

I can see where improvements can be made now that I have a few miles on the bike. I know that slightly richer/correct fueling will help it run cooler too.

My upcoming 18 day ride will include a bit of everything, including mountains, cool dense coastal weather, and a couple of state's worth of August desert riding.
Conditions like that have me thinking more about correct fueling than a performance increase. If it improves what I consider already very good throttle response, that'll be a bonus. Overall I think it will be money very well spent.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:46 PM   #2603
DLdeano
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The PC-V w/ the O2 optimizer will improve things and not affect the warranty (or can be taken off easily if there is an issue)...has me thinking that is the route to go.

Does the PC-V come with a preloaded map (2010 Stelvio A8 motor), or do I need to fidget with it once installed? My bike runs well, but correcting the fueling is never a bad thing

18k+ miles and no issues; but what the hell, I wanna blow some money on her.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:15 PM   #2604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLdeano View Post
The PC-V w/ the O2 optimizer will improve things and not affect the warranty (or can be taken off easily if there is an issue)...has me thinking that is the route to go.

Does the PC-V come with a preloaded map (2010 Stelvio A8 motor), or do I need to fidget with it once installed? My bike runs well, but correcting the fueling is never a bad thing

18k+ miles and no issues; but what the hell, I wanna blow some money on her.
Excellent point Deano. I hadn't thought about Todd's modified ECU voiding the warranty, which I'm sure it would. The PCV w/ Autotune is somewhat "self-calibrating", but only for the 4k rpm range and above. To get the whole enchilada, it looks like you need to weld the DynoJet O2 optimizer sensors into the header in addition to the existing sensors, which I assume would also void your warranty.

I don't think you can get there from here.....

-SM
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:20 PM   #2605
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Originally Posted by kirb View Post
I answered some of my own questions by pulling off the side cover-

The GPS connector is on the left side, it has a green insert and is connected to nothing. I cut the connector off, crimped on one of mine (http://www.laddinc.com/our-products/...ayout=category) and I was off and running.
The GPS wiring is long enough (30-36") to get up to the handlebars just about any direction you want to go. I used my Garmin wiring to get down to the GPS connector and made up the junction there and left most of the bike wiring where it was..
Found the connector, found the hot (green) and gnd (blue/black) and wired in my Touratech w/ Garmin mount. No workie. I'm getting 10.5v from the bike's GPS wires and I assume that's just too low for my Zumo, which wants to see 12v. Does the bike have to be RUNNING for the power to reach the right levels, or should key -> on be good enough?

Thanks,
SM
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #2606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Excellent point Deano. I hadn't thought about Todd's modified ECU voiding the warranty, which I'm sure it would. The PCV w/ Autotune is somewhat "self-calibrating", but only for the 4k rpm range and above. To get the whole enchilada, it looks like you need to weld the DynoJet O2 optimizer sensors into the header in addition to the existing sensors, which I assume would also void your warranty.

I don't think you can get there from here.....

-SM
There is a difference between the O2 optimizer and the Autotune...

If I am reading correctly: Autotune requires a new O2 sensor drilled in (if using stock ECU), where as the O2 optimizer simply plugs into the harness in line with the O2 sensor. Easy to remove, and effectively fattens up the bottom (less than 40% throttle) application.

The PC-V take care of more than 40% throttle...

See here: http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/208/5950.html

Hopefully someone smarter than me will chime in as I like the O2 optimizer idea, but have no idea how to map a PC.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:19 PM   #2607
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Originally Posted by DLdeano View Post
There is a difference between the O2 optimizer and the Autotune...

If I am reading correctly: Autotune requires a new O2 sensor drilled in (if using stock ECU), where as the O2 optimizer simply plugs into the harness in line with the O2 sensor. Easy to remove, and effectively fattens up the bottom (less than 40% throttle) application.

The PC-V take care of more than 40% throttle...

See here: http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/208/5950.html

Hopefully someone smarter than me will chime in as I like the O2 optimizer idea, but have no idea how to map a PC.
Ah...right you are.

I wonder when the good folks at Cobra Engineering are going to make their Fi2000 for Guzzis? ("Never" is the likely answer.....)

http://www.fi2000r.com/html/pwrpro.php

THAT'S my kind of programmer....one I don't have to touch and it figures all this mumbo jumbo out for me.

-SM
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:46 AM   #2608
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Ah...right you are.

I wonder when the good folks at Cobra Engineering are going to make their Fi2000 for Guzzis? ("Never" is the likely answer.....)

http://www.fi2000r.com/html/pwrpro.php

THAT'S my kind of programmer....one I don't have to touch and it figures all this mumbo jumbo out for me.

-SM
I fitted a power commander with the autotune module. You do need to fit a broad spectrum o2 sensor as the stock ones are a very narrow band width. I got fantastic results with plug and play. I opened up the airbox by drilling holes in and put on a mistral pipe. Seriously awesome bike now. I can't see how the Fi2000 would be able to tune your bike with such a lousy read out from the stock 02 sensor. The autotune module is the key to successfully tuning the guzzi. My 2010 Guzzi NTX runs rings around the 2012 model. It's smoother, more powerful, more linear and has gobs of torque. It feels like a turbine. Do yourself a favour and don't hold back. You will love your bike so much more again.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:05 AM   #2609
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The 2012 NTX picked up another O2 sensor....there are two now.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:48 AM   #2610
Sock Monkey
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Found the connector, found the hot (green) and gnd (blue/black) and wired in my Touratech w/ Garmin mount. No workie. I'm getting 10.5v from the bike's GPS wires and I assume that's just too low for my Zumo, which wants to see 12v. Does the bike have to be RUNNING for the power to reach the right levels, or should key -> on be good enough?

Thanks,
SM
Futzed with it some more, still not working, engine running or not.

Can someone else confirm the voltage coming from the bike's dedicated GPS wires? I thought it odd that I was only getting 10.5v and thought maybe the engine needed to be running to bring it up to 12v+, but nope, still 10.5v and my Zumo won't recognize external power with it that low.

-SM
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