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Old 03-08-2012, 05:18 PM   #556
NHMatt
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I'm a civilian who works on a Navy base and had to take the safety rider courses in order to ride on base. I saw some funny things this week. I posted it here: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771110
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #557
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t-shirt slogans are not logic

Klaviator, guys like you are part of the problem. The kids hear your stories and say he lived to tell cool stories, I can, too. We need to make purchasing beginner motorcycles less stigmatizing. One way I suggested is a manufacturer to concentrate on two models for military buyers. Lure them with advertising and special trade-in deals for military members only.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by willis 2000 View Post
Klaviator, guys like you are part of the problem. The kids hear your stories and say he lived to tell cool stories, I can, too. We need to make purchasing beginner motorcycles less stigmatizing. One way I suggested is a manufacturer to concentrate on two models for military buyers. Lure them with advertising and special trade-in deals for military members only.
There are a lot of good ideas on this thread. Now all you have to do is market them to the military. Here's how:

Step 1. Make the program really, really expensive.
Step 2. Ensure the contract will last for at least 5 years.
Step 3. Make sure you point out that the price will increase 15% annually.
Step 4. Find a junior officer who needs some fluff for his OER to write the contract.
Step 5. Enjoy the early retirement!
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:40 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willis 2000 View Post
Klaviator, guys like you are part of the problem. The kids hear your stories and say he lived to tell cool stories, I can, too. We need to make purchasing beginner motorcycles less stigmatizing. One way I suggested is a manufacturer to concentrate on two models for military buyers. Lure them with advertising and special trade-in deals for military members only.
This won't work if they don't buy the beginner bikes. Beginner bikes have seldom done well in the U. S., let alone with testosterone filled young men such as those in the military. Logic has little to do with the buying habits of motorcycle buyers.

These guys buy fast motorcycles because they want to ride fast. Fast is not unsafe if done properly, at the right place and right time, and by a rider with the proper skills. You are NOT going to get these guys to buy beginner bikes. It makes more sense to try to make them safer on the bikes they have.

I won't argue that they wouldn't be better off on beginner bikes, but unless you can get them to buy them, it's totally irrelative. Also, someone riding like an idiot on a beginner bike is not exactly safe either.

Willis, guys like you are part of the problem, you try to solve problems using theories, instead of dealing with reality.
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klaviator screwed with this post 03-08-2012 at 09:03 PM
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:59 PM   #560
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This won't work if they don't buy the beginner bikes. Beginner bikes have seldom done well in the U. S., let alone with testosterone filled young men such as those in the military. Logic has little to do with the buying habits of motorcycle buyers.

These guys buy fast motorcycles because they want to ride fast. Fast is not unsafe if done properly, at the right place and right time, and by a rider with the proper skills. You are NOT going to get these guys to buy beginner bikes. It makes more sense to try to make them safer on the bikes they have.

I won't argue that they wouldn't be better off on beginner bikes, but unless you can get them to buy them, it's totally irrelative. Also, someone riding like an idiot on a beginner bike is not exactly safe either.

I'm 27 and active duty. I daily commuted on a 50cc Ruckus for over a year before getting a Ninja 650...

I tend to be the exception not the rule though.

Maybe one day I'll get a ZX14 just for shits and giggles
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:07 PM   #561
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I'm 27 and active duty. I daily commuted on a 50cc Ruckus for over a year before getting a Ninja 650...

I tend to be the exception not the rule though.

Maybe one day I'll get a ZX14 just for shits and giggles
A Ninja 650 is a good choice. Don't be in a hurry to move up to a bigger bike. Bigger is not always better and smaller is often more fun.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #562
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A Ninja 650 is a good choice. Don't be in a hurry to move up to a bigger bike. Bigger is not always better and smaller is often more fun.

I wanted a WR250X, but my wife wasn't having it, lol. "Hell no, that thing is ugly!"

Women...
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:45 PM   #563
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I think we agree

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A Ninja 650 is a good choice. Don't be in a hurry to move up to a bigger bike. Bigger is not always better and smaller is often more fun.
This is the type of beginner bike I was talking about, maybe paired with the Ninja 250. A lot of experienced riders prefer these lighter, very capable bikes.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:00 PM   #564
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I wanted a WR250X, but my wife wasn't having it, lol. "Hell no, that thing is ugly!"

Women...
Show her a Guzzi...

No need to thank me.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:07 AM   #565
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This is the type of beginner bike I was talking about, maybe paired with the Ninja 250. A lot of experienced riders prefer these lighter, very capable bikes.
IMO, the key to getting young guys to buy less powerful sport bikes is to make them look just as sporty as the faster models. Kawasaki is on the right track with their Ninja 250 & 650. I used to sell bikes and most young guys mainly cared about how a bike looked. They often had no idea if a bike was actually fast although a 250 is a tough sell if the buyer can afford a bigger bike.

If Honda's CBR250 sells well, we may see more beginner friendly sport bikes available. Personally, I'd like to see something like a Ninja 400 being sold. Many GI's however, can afford something bigger and faster and will still buy a bigger/faster bike than they should given their experience level.

I don't think that there is any one "magic bullet" solution to GI's and crashes but having more smaller but still appealing bikes available would certainly be one step in the right direction.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:24 PM   #566
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I believe in rider training. The USMC has done a great deal in the last few years to that end. They offer advanced riding courses to anyone with a CAC.

And, Jason Pridmore's STAR riding school has FREE training for Guard members (priority to USA NG).

I'm trying to get into both of these before the end of the calendar year.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #567
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Don't talk to this guy....

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Old 08-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #568
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Hmmm. What a topic. Fortunately or unfortunately, the young and adventurous will always want the fastest/swoopiest bikes out there, and displacement matters. I know, cause I had to have a GSxR at that age and fresh out of AIT, and I couldn't afford an 1100 so I settled on a Salvaged 750 (when Bert's was a small time moto recycling operation). 600's are a "stepping stone", but mostly inlines. Some were happy with twins or other displacements, but most of my buds wanted Ninja's and Gixxers.

IMO, best we can do is try to train 'em up and pray for the best. I suspect it's always been this way... YMMV.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:23 PM   #569
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I think that one of the simplest ways to reduce the number and severity of accidents would be to impose a horsepower limit on the bikes a soldier can ride during his first two years after he gets his motorcycle licence, lets say 50hp or less.
.
Sounds like an excellent idea there. I crashed n burned in my younger days
while in the AF, so did a couple of buddies... rank amateur riders we were,
jumping astraddle of stuff like GS1150 and GSXR 1100 Suzys, that we had
no business on - yet anyway.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #570
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... 600's are a "stepping stone", but mostly inlines. Some were happy with twins or other displacements, but most of my buds wanted Ninja's and Gixxers.

IMO, best we can do is try to train 'em up and pray for the best. I suspect it's always been this way... YMMV.
I'm a fan (and former RC) of the Military SportBike RiderCourse (MSRC). Taking a street rider who thinks they have "outgrown" their 600cc sportbike and putting them thru a basic course like the MSRC is a Revelation for most riders.

Too many riders peg "performance" with acceleration (which is totally subjective by the Human body).

For sure, some GI's are gonna be knuckleheads and do dumb shit, no matter what.

But, there are some folks, with the right attention...will realize that there is more to motorcycling that outright speed...that late apexing, and trail braking, and nailing the perfect exit speed and so many other things can be thrilling and still be without Drama.

Some of the most fun I've had on a moto was, after 300,000 miles...I bought a KLR (upgraded the suspension) and terrorized a few sportbikes in/around southwest VA.

YMMV.
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