86 Elite 150 quest for 70mpg

[hayasakiman]

Originally Posted by outofcontrol

I bought a new Iridium plug today and threw it in. Took a quick run 5 miles and plug was not sooty, and a nice brown.
With the last plug is was sooty in 30 seconds.

If this pushes me up over 70mpg and solves my problems.... $8 plug and 5 min of work???

It'll take me another week to find out driving 12 miles a day to work and back.

-Kevin

If it was my scoot showing that much improvement with iridium plug over regular plug provided the heat range is correct, I would review all of connections and components related with ignition system. Make sure there's no corrosion or crud build up preventing proper flow of electrons.

[outofcontrol]

Originally Posted by hayasakiman

If it was my scoot showing that much improvement with iridium plug over regular plug provided the heat range is correct, I would review all of connections and components related with ignition system. Make sure there's no corrosion or crud build up preventing proper flow of electrons.

I did this once before, but it makes complete sense. Maybe I missed something. When I did some high speed runs it was just a little bit cutting out. Not a lot, but it would stumble every once in a while. Like 3-4 times for a blip in 5 miles of WOT. I might not have noticed if I wasn't paying attention. Sometimes I magically fix stuff just by playing with it. (wiggling wires) Also, maybe I'm just breaking in this motor again after sitting for 21yrs? I keep adding a couple ozs. of Seafoam to every tank. Thanks for all the advice!

Filled up today: 60.3mpg.

History:
51.0
50.3
53.9 fixed float valve and petcock leaks. adjusted brakes so they don't drag.
53.8
55.4 deep cleaned carb.
60.3
??? Iridium plug?

[BuzzJ]

I have an 85 Elite 150 which I have been getting about 60 mpg using 87 octaine gas. My question should I use regular or high octaine gas in this bike?

[outofcontrol]

Originally Posted by BuzzJ

I have an 85 Elite 150 which I have been getting about 60 mpg using 87 octaine gas. My question should I use regular or high octaine gas in this bike?

My theory is that unless you're getting a lot of knocking, 87 is fine. That being said, try 92 and see if it changes.

Today I lowered the oil level to 3/4 on the dipstick. I read some post somewhere that having too much oil in the crankcase caused a guy poor economy. I think he said that the manual even says to do that... doesn't sound right, but I'll try it.

-Kevin

[hexnut]

Originally Posted by outofcontrol

My theory is that unless you're getting a lot of knocking, 87 is fine. That being said, try 92 and see if it changes.

Today I lowered the oil level to 3/4 on the dipstick. I read some post somewhere that having too much oil in the crankcase caused a guy poor economy. I think he said that the manual even says to do that... doesn't sound right, but I'll try it.

-Kevin

I believe I would rather have poor economy than low oil, but thats just me...My scooter only holds .9 mils of oil and I want it all in there.

[outofcontrol]

Originally Posted by hexnut

I believe I would rather have poor economy than low oil, but thats just me...My scooter only holds .9 mils of oil and I want it all in there.

100% agreed. I think mine holds 910 mL as well. Not even a full quart.

I guess I should have been more clear: If the oil is overfilled, the crank can splash in the oil and froth it up just like a milkshake or a Latte. That's when the damage happens. Aerated oil is a poor lubricant. I think the guy who posted up about lowering the oil amount also had a rich fuel mixture from the high oil. I'm not sure about the connection there, but whatever.

And I did have way too much in there. Right up to the bottom of the dipstick threads, which is too much. I might have dumped out about 1.5oz. And it's still reading 75% on the dipstick. I honestly don't think it will make a difference, but I'm keeping an open mind to all advice.

-KM

[Wentwest]

Maybe I missed it, but to really assess mileage, I'd need to know how much you weigh, how much the stuff you carry weighs, how long your average trip is and how fast you accelerate. There are lots of things that can change your mileage a few miles either way. On my 150 I get about 63 mpg, but if I use it on the freeway much that goes down a bit. If you ride around at 40-45 and rarely stop, you'll get great mileage. A worn belt will lower your mileage, worn rollers in the variator will too. If you weigh 250, your mileage will be lower by a lot compared to a 130 pound person.

Finally, I know it's an old story, but every time I find I can't change the idle much with the pilot screw it's because of a faulty bystarter. Make sure the gaskets on it are sound, so it's not leaking air around it. On one scooter I finally took the brass ferrule and needle and spring off a broken bystarter, dropped it into place, plugged up the large opening fully with gas resistant foam, capped it with a piece of plastic screwed down with the 2 screws that held the bystarter clip down and just eliminated the whole bystarter circuit altogether. The scooter runs great, the mileage went up a lot, and starting it, even after sitting for several months, is pretty easy. Probably would be bad at 30 degrees, but it's not 30 degrees here and if it was, I wouldn't ride for fear of ice.

Bob

[outofcontrol]

203lbs.
Sometimes a laptop in my backpack, but just rider and scoot most commutes.
6.5 miles to work, 6.5 miles home, 15-20 min each way. Over a large urban mountain range: 250' to 800' back down to 250'.
25-40 mph with 5-6 stops each way, and yes WOT to get going most of the time.
I don't think the rollers/variator are worn, but I don't know. Bought the bike with 3700 miles, and I have about 4300 now in a month. I just assumed that they're ok. I took the belt off, and it looks new, but what do I know. It was 18mm wide, and looked fine. I think that's the spec for a new one, and 16mm means replace. The rollers were buried in grease so I assumed they're fine too. I was able to hit 70mph on a slight downhill freeway stretch, but that's my only basis for assuming the belt is fine, or wide enough to get to the outside diameter of the variator.

I love the solution for just eliminating the bystarter. I was thinking that it would be wonderful to just eliminate that component from the equation. Unfortunately unplugging it doesn't do the job, rather the opposite.

I am actually pleased as punch to get 50mpg and have so much fun doing it. But at the same time, I really enjoy tearing into this thing to see if I can make it better. Thanks so much for the perspective, and some more ideas for me to entertain.

I'll keep posting my results, if for nothing else, my own record. Cheers!

-Kevin

[outofcontrol]

Originally Posted by Wentwest

On one scooter I finally took the brass ferrule and needle and spring off a broken bystarter, dropped it into place, plugged up the large opening fully with gas resistant foam, capped it with a piece of plastic screwed down with the 2 screws that held the bystarter clip down and just eliminated the whole bystarter circuit altogether. The scooter runs great, the mileage went up a lot, and starting it, even after sitting for several months, is pretty easy. Probably would be bad at 30 degrees, but it's not 30 degrees here and if it was, I wouldn't ride for fear of ice.

Bob

I went to sleep last night thinking about this. I don't have a spare bystarter to sacrifice. Would it be just as effective to plug the bystarter pickup right next to the jets? Use either a tiny screw, or some fuel resistant glue, or a tiny little rubber cork? Something I could easily reverse down the road?

It's below the main and pilots jets in this picture. It's a pressed in brass tube. (as far as I know)


Aired up my tires to 38psi rear, 28psi front.

-Kevin

[Wentwest]

That's the pickup jet for fuel. If you plug it, you won't get fuel, but you will still get a lot of air through the port that runs around the side of the main venturi. You can see a hole on the intake side and another in the manifold side. Air flows right through there, and shuts off when the bystarter heats up and extends. So you have to plug up that passage, too.

Bob

[outofcontrol]

I could probably plug the air intake as well... but now I'm imagining rubber corks getting sucked into the engine...

Maybe I'm just a fat, ham-fisted, suburbanite, and I should be happy with 60mpg? I just thought flogging it I should get 70, and milking it i'd get 90mpg.

I'm going to spend more time inspecting my drive train (belt) and looking over the ignition end of things.

Next time I have the carb off, I'll see if I can do the bystarter check as prescribed by the manual, but I'm not really sure how I'm going to draw a vacuum on that little hole that's 0.2mm in diameter on the engine side of the carb.

-Kevin

[Wentwest]

"Maybe I'm just a fat, ham-fisted, suburbanite, and I should be happy with 60mpg? I just thought flogging it I should get 70, and milking it i'd get 90mpg."

Join the club!

There's a fascinating website at www.craigvetter.com where he has a long story of trying to improve on a Honda Helix to get better mileage at speed. A failure ultimately, but a lot of info and fun.

Scooting around the neighborhood, parking where you want, and generally smiling your way to work is what it's all about. Don't overthink the whole deal.

[outofcontrol]

Yes. You're right. Even at 50mpg it's fun. But I got that on my KLR650.

I took a 62 mile backroad joyride at 35-45mph today as a test. Filled up before and after and got 65mpg.

The beauty is that I love the challenge of improvement. This whole thing is fun for me. I'm not going to sell the thing if I don't hit the mark, bu if I do have an "Ah-ha!" moment, it will be glorious.

Thanks for playing along.
-Kevin.

[outofcontrol]

Last tank 58mpg.

I do have a new problem: roughly 40% power loss on hills. Off/On like a switch. I'll probably just start replacing ignition parts since they're so cheap. Checking grounds, connections, etc.

Also ordering new jets just so I can be sure they're stock. The ones I have don't have any markings, although they look like they're original.

-KM

[BuzzJ]

As of the last fillup with 92 octane I am getting 72mpg as opposed to 63mpg with 87.