ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-16-2012, 05:16 PM   #91
kittty OP
ScooterGirl
 
kittty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Fairfield, CT
Oddometer: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
Your New Beetle or the desired Mini and Fiats are nothing like the originals. The originals were utilitarian cars to get from A to B, comfort was not part of the design considerations. The new retro cars are boutique cars. New Vespa 150/300 is the same to a vintage Vespa than a new Mini is to a real Mini.
This, I am more than aware of. But an air-cooled Beetle is not something I can have for a daily, and not something I have room for as a toy, so it's only a dream. My New Beetle is a nod to the original, that's all. And I'm fine with that for a daily driver. If I had my way, I'd have a fleet of old cars. A DeSoto, a Type 3 Notchback, a RHD Mini... but that day will probably never come.

Anyway, I have never owned an automatic car, and I don't see a need to own a twist and go scooter, it just won't happen. It's not a opposition to the style of the scooters, it's the transmission. If the GTS Super had a clutch, I'd be into it.
__________________
I'm outdoorsy in that I like getting drunk on patios.
kittty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 09:32 PM   #92
S/W
Gnarly Adventurer
 
S/W's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Oddometer: 377
shifting

There are many people who never had the chance to row a shxx can junk car around with a three speed on the column when they were young.Or a small Japanese car with a 600cc engine and a four speed.. For the same reason guys got to have a Harley, many people have to get shifting out of their systems. I don't have a problem with that, I was young once. But, If I find myself in stop and go, bumper to bumper, beach traffic, on a hot summer weekend, I want to be riding something with a CVT.
A long time ago I was listening to a talk show about wine. A call in question was "how do I become a wine expert"? The answer from the expert was simple " drink lots of wine"! It's the same with bikes. Buy what you want, don't kid yourself with the results, and keep trying till you get the bike that is fun to ride. This is not easy, and is why people sometimes have garages full of them.
S/W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:43 PM   #93
Birdmove
Beastly Adventurer
 
Birdmove's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Keaau, Hawaii
Oddometer: 1,675
I'm approaching my 59th birthday and started riding at 8 years. I've owned some 25 motorcycles in that time and a few scooters. I've owned two Sportsters. First was a new 1984 XLX1000. Second was a used 2006 XL883. I liked them both just fine. The 2006 was about the perfect bike for me, especially since my wife doesn't ride on the back any more. Be aware that the Iron has lowered suspension for that slammed look. My Sportsters both had standard length suspension. The Iron won't have as good of cornering clearance. I worked at Destination Harley-Davidson in Tacoma, Wa. for 5 years. A coworker that had a Nightster (with the shortened suspension also) followed me to work one morning on my XL883. It was a great winding country road along farms and a river. He couldn't believe the lean angles I got (me being an old geezer too). He couldn't make the corners like I could due to scraping hard parts. HD goes to shorter shocks in the rear and shorter fork tubes up front.
I also bought a new 2007 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet Classic in the British racing green. Great looking bike and mine did quite well. If you want to be noticed, buy the Enfield. I have never had so many strangers approach me asking about that bike. They handle well, are way lighter than any competition, look great, get great gas mileage, etc. The valves were the easiest to adjust I have ever seen. With the tool (a wrench) in hand and the bike at TDC on compression stroke, I could check the clearance in maybe 30 seconds. Adjusting took another wrench and maybe 5 minutes tops. Oil and filter changes were more involved than most bikes, but still no big deal. Mine used no measurable oil between changes. As in I never had to add any.
I also rode genuine old timey Britbikes back in the 70s. And I've owned a bunch of dual sport bikes.
When Triumph (Hinkley Triumph) came out with the Bonneville I rode my Kawasaki 500 Ninja to a dealer and took a test ride. I liked it a lot, and love the looks too. Haven't bought one yet. Life is just too dam short. Right now I want to get another dual sport.
Best of luck in your choice. Test ride that Iron. At least HD dealers still do test rides.
__________________
Jon in Keaau, Hi. USA
2008 SYM HD200 (wife's ride)
2009 Kymco People 150 and coming soon, another dual sport mc
Birdmove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 08:18 AM   #94
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/W View Post
There are many people who never had the chance to row a shxx can junk car around with a three speed on the column when they were young.Or a small Japanese car with a 600cc engine and a four speed.. For the same reason guys got to have a Harley, many people have to get shifting out of their systems. I don't have a problem with that, I was young once. But, If I find myself in stop and go, bumper to bumper, beach traffic, on a hot summer weekend, I want to be riding something with a CVT.
A long time ago I was listening to a talk show about wine. A call in question was "how do I become a wine expert"? The answer from the expert was simple " drink lots of wine"! It's the same with bikes. Buy what you want, don't kid yourself with the results, and keep trying till you get the bike that is fun to ride. This is not easy, and is why people sometimes have garages full of them.
Brought back a memory.

Know when I really decided shifting wasn't worth it? In Sturgis, of all places - when I stumbled into town a week before Bike Week; and was locked in traffic. I thought I would burn out the clutch of my R1200GS, all the creeping along. Engine was overheating, too...I took to leg-pedaling it forward. Until a way opened up to get me OUT of there...

Shifting on a bike, as a routine...ain't all it's cracked up to be. In some uses, some applications, sure. Not for urban areas or stop-and-go situations.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 01:20 PM   #95
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
"Your New Beetle or the desired Mini and Fiats are nothing like the originals. The originals were utilitarian cars to get from A to B, comfort was not part of the design considerations. The new retro cars are boutique cars. New Vespa 150/300 is the same to a vintage Vespa than a new Mini is to a real Mini"

I want the originals. The "real deals" not some modern plastic computerized "imitation". I especially love the air cooled Beetle. I have owned 3 of them, and will most likely own another. Other than my former '70 Dodge Charger with a 440 Magnum, they were the most fun cars I ever owned.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 08:48 PM   #96
mrphotoman
Beastly Adventurer
 
mrphotoman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: KBR27
Oddometer: 1,050
I feel the exact opposite, I see absolutely nothing about a harley that I like. Underpowered, overweight, poor handling and low quality compared to the others. I just do not see why anyone would want one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
One of my issues is with the Japanese 'Harley copies" The TU250 is a nice enough little bike, but it is too small to really be freeway capable, even though it is freeway legal. But by far it's biggest fault is it almost total lack of character. It may as well have an electric motor. It has no "mechanical" feel or sounds to it at all. Far to refined for my taste. I have owned a ton of Japanese motorcycles,, and never loved any of them. They all seem "fake" somehow. And they are all way too refined, even the Harley copies,, which the V-Star 250 certainly is. I like my Ninja 500 not because it has character, because it doesn't, but because of the way it handles curvy roads. Still, an exotic, like an Aprilia or Ducati would be much better, and being European, I consider them the real thing. Ducatis have character, but they are not for someone who does not want a hardcore sportbike. Older BMW twins had character, but not the new ones. It has all been refined out. The Sportster 883 is NOT a large motorcycle, it is barely bigger than the V-Star 250. It is tiny compared to the huge Japanese Harley copy v-twins like the Kawasaki Vulcan 900, V-Star 900, Suzuki C50, and Honda Shadow Aero 750. Again the displacement might be close, but the physical size of the bike makes it look very small when parked next to one of those behemouths. It is also way smaller than the Bonnie, which is much larger than the '60s Bonneville, not only in displacement, but in physical size.

The only way to tell if you fit on a bike for sure is to go to a dealer and sit on it. And unlike the Japanese dealers, Harley dealers usually allow test rides.

One thing I can tell you, is that I own a Genuine Stella, and a Yamaha Vino 125. They both have about the same performance, other than the Stella can take off faster, and climb hills better due to it's manual gearbox. But when it comes to outright fun, the Stella is easily 10 times more fun. The Vino, while it will get you where you are going and back, is like riding a piece of Tupperware with wheels. It does have a motor, but you get no sensation of that while riding it. The Stella IS a vintage Vespa PX150E, made by LML in India, who once made Vespa branded scooters for Piaggio. There is nothing "fake" about it. The Royal Enfield was, up until a few years ago, still an exact copy of a 1950s Royal Enfield, made by a company that, again, made real Royal Enfield bikes for the Royal Enfield company until they went out of business, then the Indian company went right on making Royal Enfields, using original Royal Enfield tooling. Then the EPA and DOT got in the way, and the machines were completely redesigned to meet modern standards for safety and emissions. The same reason new Stellas wound up with a 4 stroke engine which robbed them of most of their character. Todays Royal Enfields use unit construction engines, and of all things, fuel injection, which means a computer. They do still have style and character, and they are NOT Asian, which is good, but they are still too cheaply built for me. I love ancient design and character, but I still want some degree of reliability. My '66 Triumph had a lot more reliability than a Royal Enfield, once you got things right. By the time I owned it (mid '80s) there were a lot of aftermarket parts available to improve it. There were better carbs, better electrical parts, cables that didn't break, etc.


I would go to a Harley dealer, and try the Sportster. Then you will likely know if it is the bike for you. I have little doubt that handle it. If it does turn out to be not your thing, then you will know, and can move on to something else. Tou didn't say whether you wanted to do a lot of freeway riding or not. A Royal Enfield can handle some, though at slow speeds. It has about the same power as a TU250 or V-Star 250, or even a Rebel 250. But those bikes can be ridden flat out at '80 mph all day every day, while an Enfield can't. A Sportster can take you anywhere in the country, at freeway speeds, while feeling and sounding right, and without over exerting itself.


If you are wondering why I am posting so much about this, it seems as though you like the same type of bikes I do, and that is not common. Most people want refined, refined, and more refined. I want exactly the opposite. Go to stellaspeed.com, and you will find the same attitude. Most of those people wouldn't be caught dead on a plastic Asian scooter. They don't even like modern Vespas, because, you guessed it. They are too refined and souless. They do like Vespas, just not new ones. They like 2 strokes with manual shifting. Modern Vespas don't even have kickstarters, which is usually how I start my Stella.
mrphotoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 09:07 PM   #97
kittty OP
ScooterGirl
 
kittty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Fairfield, CT
Oddometer: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I want the originals. The "real deals" not some modern plastic computerized "imitation". I especially love the air cooled Beetle. I have owned 3 of them, and will most likely own another. Other than my former '70 Dodge Charger with a 440 Magnum, they were the most fun cars I ever owned.
I've always driven Volkswagens. Started with a 1988 Fox and as new as a 2007 Rabbit. In no way do I think my Beetle replaces the original, that's not the point of it. I got the Beetle because I wanted a convertible, and I knew if I got a Cabrio I would mod the hell out of it, because I had already owned two others on the MK3 platform and I knew too much about what was available for them. I knew if I got a Beetle, I wouldn't do much beyond suspension and wheels. I didn't buy it with the intent of it being "retro," I just wanted a convertible and they're cute.

I like that older people often approach me in parking lots or chat with me at stop lights though. besides the rough shape, it's nothing like the original, but it still brings them back to the one they had. Also, kids on the side of the road punch each other, that's probably the best part.

The biggest thing the New Beetle has in common with an air-cooled though, is that neither have a badge. I know the air-cooled weren't technically called Beetles, but it obviously caught on, and they never said Beetle on them. Well, the new ones don't either. What other car doesn't have a badge on it? Nothing I can think of, outside of exotics. It doesn't need a badge, it's so iconic everyone knows what it is from any angle. That, I like. I know cars, and when new Nissans and Hondas and whatever come out, you rarely know what they are anymore when you see one on the road for the first time. That's never a problem with the Beetle, of any era. That's what still evokes warm fuzzies even with the new ones. It's familiar and comforting. And it comes stock with a bud vase
__________________
I'm outdoorsy in that I like getting drunk on patios.
kittty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 12:09 AM   #98
SilkMoneyLove
Beastly Adventurer
 
SilkMoneyLove's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Oddometer: 1,966
I think HD quality is very good. I owned an 883R and enjoyed it. I sold it because I rode it too fast for what it was and almost crashed...a couple of times.

I have a Ural for putting around and riding with the kid. Have you checked those out? I know you dealer doesn't sell them, and they aren't going to go over 70mph, so it might not be what you want.
Downside, they don't lean or go that fast and your dealer doesn't support them.
Upside - Depending on the year, they are basically the same sine the 70s. Mine is a 1997 and is kick start only.
You get noticed...a lot. It has reverse!
SilkMoneyLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #99
Süsser Tod
Studly Adventurer
 
Süsser Tod's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Oddometer: 965
Well, Kitty has backed herself into a corner, and...

The only options would be a Royal Enfield or a Ural. The Ural Solo ST doesn't have a sidecar and looks the part of an old BMW...

The new Royal Enfields with the UCE are much better than the old ones. They look like brand new bikes from the 50s, but the UCE is a brand new design, with technology from the 70s, but new.
Süsser Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 09:21 AM   #100
kittty OP
ScooterGirl
 
kittty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Fairfield, CT
Oddometer: 54
I don't think the Ural is an option. I don't need a sidecar, that's for sure, and there doesn't seem to be a good reason to get the Solo one over anything else, like the Royal Enfield. No dealer nearby.

I still really love the Royal Enfield, but I don't think it's the right choice for what I need to do. I want something that will be comfortable for fairly short highway trips, like visiting a friend a half hour away, that sort of stuff. Something that will be easy to maintain, which while some people have had luck, I don't think it's known for it (even though they tout it on their website).
__________________
I'm outdoorsy in that I like getting drunk on patios.
kittty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 09:33 AM   #101
SilkMoneyLove
Beastly Adventurer
 
SilkMoneyLove's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Oddometer: 1,966
Kittty - this has been a fun exercise, thinking about classic bikes.

I think the HD is the fit for what you describe. The dealer near me lets me demo the bike I want to buy for up to half a day with no obligation. I have bought 2 bikes from them before, so they know I'm not BSing them. I suspect your dealer would do the same. That gives you a few hours in the saddle to see if it feels, sounds, looks like the right fit.
Then it might just be about timing. Fall is a great time to buy a bike. Model year is coming up and people and dealers don't want to have to store a bike over winter.
That is my unrequested buying advice :-)
I'm sure whatever you decide will be fun. Enjoy the ride.
SilkMoneyLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 10:47 PM   #102
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
The problem is, it's just getting really hard to find new bikes with the features, character and soul of vintage bikes. Aside from HD, the Enfield and the Ural Solo are about it. I had completely forgotten about the Ural, I went to their site and looked. That Solo does look good, and I have a Ural dealer not to far away, I might just go check one out. My biggest concern is that they are made in Russia, and with the shaky relations between the U.S. and Russia right now, I wonder about future parts availability.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 11:42 PM   #103
fullmetalscooter
Let me take this duck off
 
fullmetalscooter's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: BC
Oddometer: 2,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The problem is, it's just getting really hard to find new bikes with the features, character and soul of vintage bikes. Aside from HD, the Enfield and the Ural Solo are about it. I had completely forgotten about the Ural, I went to their site and looked. That Solo does look good, and I have a Ural dealer not to far away, I might just go check one out. My biggest concern is that they are made in Russia, and with the shaky relations between the U.S. and Russia right now, I wonder about future parts availability.
read the thread here about why not to buy a ural. If you like repairing you bike ever week or so, crappy gas mileage at 35 MPG then go for it. a Few people have put real BMW air head engines in them. Don't get me wrong it you don't mind doing as your grandfather did when he road a bike they re nice. It's a 1941 engine no matter how you update it and it's going to take 1941 motorcycle riding skills to keep it going . No riding week in and out with no thoughts of doing anything. You would be better to spend 5 grand a 1970 something BMW airhead bike instead. Even an old BWM R 60 or r65 airhead with a side car is better then these.

__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting WHAT A RUSH, WHAT A RIDE.
"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot." Charlie Chaplin
fullmetalscooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 12:17 PM   #104
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,795
For anyone interested in a Ural, this is an interesting ride report: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809404

I have no interest in a Ural but still found it to be a very interesting read.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #105
CaseyJones
Ridin' that train
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western Montana
Oddometer: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittty View Post
I've always driven Volkswagens. Started with a 1988 Fox and as new as a 2007 Rabbit. In no way do I think my Beetle replaces the original, that's not the point of it. I got the Beetle because I wanted a convertible, and I knew if I got a Cabrio I would mod the hell out of it, because I had already owned two others on the MK3 platform and I knew too much about what was available for them. I knew if I got a Beetle, I wouldn't do much beyond suspension and wheels. I didn't buy it with the intent of it being "retro," I just wanted a convertible and they're cute.

I
That's revealing - to me.

Now me, I started with a Super Beetle...and ENDED with the Fox. Just that vee-dubs were getting less "people," more money, and less reliable. The Fox was the ex's car; she loved it for the time we were together...three years after the purchase. She had the two-door; I lusted for a wagon. But there was serious consideration VW would leave the States...in 1990 their sales were disastrous.

But...retro always has to have an underlying theme to it. I wouldn't go crank a car because the Model T had a crank.

Would I get a "classic" bike? HELL, NO. A "classic" American cycle had HAND SHIFTING. No-effin-WAY. Did the Japs introduce toe-shiftng, or was it the Brits? Doesn't matter...the old way SUCKED.

The "old" way had you spending a day tuning dual or triple carbs. So...should I bemoan the rise of fuel injection. FARK, NO. I CELEBRATE it.

Nostalgia can be fun. But when it costs in mileage; or demands, as in maintenance or drivability...time to end the game.

Fuel-injected, Japanese-designed, CVT-transmissioned, two-wheeled-vehicles...are where the future is at. As I see it.
__________________
2007 Burgman 650 Executive...my last hurrah

1999 BMW R1100RT - backsliding on the Scooter Life.
CaseyJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014