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Old 08-23-2012, 07:52 PM   #271
syzygy9
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Originally Posted by Terence FFM View Post
My thoughts exactly. There is a DIN norm (don't know the number off hand, but trust me, there is a norm in Germany for EVERYTHING) regarding maufacturer claimed weights. It stipulates that all fluids must be on board which are required for operation (unlike the Japanese you used to like to weigh their bikes sans cooling water, brake fluid, or acid in the battery) plus 90% of the maximum fuel load. According to this, the ABS KTM Adventures came in at 231kg without crash bars or luggage racks which can easily add another 10 kg.

So to agree with Mousitsas, unless your KTM has undergone some serious dieting, your 200 kg estimate is a little conservative. The 950 SE weighed in at right around 200 kg, (wet, of course) if I recall correctly.

On another note, not mentioned so far is a final quote from the Motorrad article (I have to paraphrase since I don't have it with me here):

KTM: Our goal was to be number one off-road among the enduros (euro speak for adventure bike).
Tester: In my opinion, you have just built the best two cylinder enduro period.

The tester raved earlier how the dual spark heads, additional rotating weight, new mapping plus whatever other mods KTM has undertaken have completely transformed the engine. Lots of low end grunt, great mid-range and a top end rush that only the Multistrada can complete with were the raves. The added weight seemed to add a great deal of smoothness at low rpm without detracting from the quick revving character the KTMs are known for. Only complaint was a bit of roughness about 7000 rpm but that equates to 180km/h so not an issue in the real (non-Autobahn) world.

Also praised were the new off-road ABS (insert flame here). The system from Bosch allows for a high rate of slippage on the front before it kicks in, and the rear is completely free to be locked up. From the brief article, it really sounds like KTM made a lot of very intelligent design choices and/or compromises.
Absolutely agree on the weight, 200kg was not meant to be an exact measure - the 990 Adv simply weighs too much regardless of what the exact measure actually is and has too much power for gnarly 'off-road'/dirt track riding.

I have found that the rear brake ABS (on a 2011 Adv) kicks in very early and has left me wanting at times (read - oh shit! how do I stop) on some pretty gnarly tracks while I haven't actually felt the front ABS kick in yet and have used them in anger at times (read - oh shit no rear brake, grab a handful of front, drop a gear and hope for the best!).
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Florida Lime View Post
Have you looked lately ?

Example: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...1/0/specs.aspx
Yamaha Super Tenere:
Wet Weight***
575 lb
***All standard equipment and all fluids, including full tank of fuel, not including options or accessories.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction. This said, at 575 pounds I wonder how long this new trend will continue
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:23 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
After having just completes a 5,000 km ride across the Australian outback of which 4,000 kms was on dirt and some of it pretty gnarly, the last thing I'd want is more weight. What happened to a 180kg, 600-800cc 70-80 bhp adv bike with good dirt credentials?

Frankly, after having dropped, unloaded, picked up, moved to hard ground, reloaded my 200kg 990 Adv for the 3rd time in 20 kms (each one taking 30mins to get back going) the thought of adding more power (not needed) and more weight (definitely not needed) is an anathema to any serious Adv travelling.

As an aside, fuel consumption averaged over 5,000 kms (fully loaded), a mix of high speed tar, high and low speed dirt, was 42.3 US mpg (5.9l/100km) giving a 650+ km range with a Safari tank.

+1

I'll keep the 8 year old 950 in my garage. You ride the whale!
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:34 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Pete156 View Post
+1

I'll keep the 8 year old 950 in my garage. You ride the whale!
The 950 was significantly lighter than the current 990? you sure about that . . . I have the 'weight' of a 950 at 198kg.

http://www.moto-specs.com/ktm-950-adventure/
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
The 950 was significantly lighter than the current 990? you sure about that . . . I have the 'weight' of a 950 at 198kg.

http://www.moto-specs.com/ktm-950-adventure/
198 is not an actual fully fueled weight. This is more like an SE. I have never seen actual measurements of 950/990 under 230 kgs. According to the posted weight for the 1190, it is 230 fully fueled with 24 lts of gas, which if true, makes it lighter than the 990.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
IMHO, KTM might be better off building their great for the road but useless off the road 1290 Adv bike but supplement that with dirt capable 600cc, 160kg single and a 700cc, 180kg twin for 'proper' adventure riding.
BTW, KTM already has 690cc, 140kg dirt capable single called 690 Enduro R...
But 160-170kg 700-800cc twin would be perfect adventure bike indeed...

Rotax has developed 600cc (120hp) and 800cc (160hp) DI 2stroke engines for snowmobiles, why not something similar from KTM?
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:16 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
198 is not an actual fully fueled weight. This is more like an SE. I have never seen actual measurements of 950/990 under 230 kgs. According to the posted weight for the 1190, it is 230 fully fueled with 24 lts of gas, which if true, makes it lighter than the 990.

Amen, Mr.Mousitsas,amen!
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:42 AM   #278
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Was speaking to my dealer a couple of weeks ago and KTM are working on a smaller version Adventure. Around the 700 - 800cc range. No specific details though, give it another 12 months.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:34 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Dotbond View Post
Was speaking to my dealer a couple of weeks ago and KTM are working on a smaller version Adventure. Around the 700 - 800cc range. No specific details though, give it another 12 months.
will have to be a KTM purebred not a BMW clone to get me to part with my 690 for one.....but if they can deliver the mythical next generation 640A replacment then that would be compelling , we will just have to wait and see!
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by randel View Post
BTW, KTM already has 690cc, 140kg dirt capable single called 690 Enduro R...
But 160-170kg 700-800cc twin would be perfect adventure bike indeed...

Rotax has developed 600cc (120hp) and 800cc (160hp) DI 2stroke engines for snowmobiles, why not something similar from KTM?
Because our masters say you can’t use larger CC DI 2 smokers on the roads.....
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:35 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
...My own experience on some pretty gnarly roads is that the current 990 Adv is probably a bit too heavy and overpowered for dirt road riding. ...
My experience is that all 9x0's are just about perfect and extremely entertaining for dirt road riding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
IMHO, KTM might be better off building their great for the road but useless off the road 1290 Adv bike but supplement that with dirt capable 600cc, 160kg single and a 700cc, 180kg twin for 'proper' adventure riding.
I don't know if the 1290 (or whatever) will be useless for off roading-- the package seems to have enough of a dirt advantage over the other bikes in the category to still rank number one off pavement while gaining those pavement attributes that might push it to the top of comparos (for what that's worth). Frankly, I believe that a 990 with an R tune, 19/17 wheel setup, more comfortable seat, and little better wind management puts it at/much closer to the top right now. The MS12 will always be a better pure pavement bike because of the 17" wheels and big power motor.


I'd love a smaller/lighter twin as the adventure bike as well, but don't think KTM can take off a whole lot of weight from the current 990. Even putting a smaller motor into an SE kind of arrangement with a bigger tank wouldn't drop all that much weight; and by the time you "adventureize" (think Tiger & BMW 800s) it to the point where it can profitably sell you're at a similar weight point.

As far as having a bike for "proper adventure riding"- I'd submit that with all the things/trips you see people doing with the current crop of bikes (and not just KTMs) "proper" is more a function of the rider than the ride.

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Old 08-24-2012, 07:48 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post

As far as having a bike for "proper adventure riding"- I'd submit that with all the things/trips you see people doing with the current crop of bikes (and not just KTMs) "proper" is more a function of the rider than the ride.
I think this is very true. I have a KTM 300 EXC which is great on single track. It is pretty boring to ride it on dirt roads. My 990 is an adventure bike. This weekend I did a nice 50/50 trip and I could not have been happier. Sure when you get there it would be nice to have a lighter bike, but getting there would be a problem and not as fun. I think the idea of an Adventure bike is rooted in it's ability to do many things, and go many places.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:57 AM   #283
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:00 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Dotbond View Post
Was speaking to my dealer a couple of weeks ago and KTM are working on a smaller version Adventure. Around the 700 - 800cc range. No specific details though, give it another 12 months.
I'm affraid this is just a rumor, which can be found from different sources from the internet and I even heard it from a KTM dealer. But how much truth is in it? The KTM model roadmap, which leaked about a year ago, does not state such a model, while all other news on that slide have proved to be true, by now. So why would a 800Adventure not be on that roadmap, if it would be ready for release 2013?

I would love to see one and would be one of the first to order it, because that would be perfect timing to replace my 990.

We will know, in about a year...!
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:22 AM   #285
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