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Old 08-22-2012, 11:19 AM   #511
Wirespokes
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Dirty - this is a Valeo Starter motor. It's a permanent magnet motor and they're glued to the inner part of the housing. The first 20 years these starters were used on BMW twins the glue would sometimes give way and allow the magnets to come loose and stick to the armature, locking up the motor.

Do you still feel this is the best product for the application?
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #512
dirty_sanchez
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Magnet bonding for applications just like this have a whole section in the Loctite catalog.

PM me with your number so we can talk this through.

Dirty



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Dirty - this is a Valeo Starter motor. It's a permanent magnet motor and they're glued to the inner part of the housing. The first 20 years these starters were used on BMW twins the glue would sometimes give way and allow the magnets to come loose and stick to the armature, locking up the motor.

Do you still feel this is the best product for the application?
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
Typical "superior German engineering". So glad my BMW is for sale.
Actually, the Valeo starters are made in France, and they've got a very good reputation. I guess they make starters for just about everything produced in europe from trucks to high-end sports cars. Other applications didn't have the 'dropped-magnet' problem, it was somehow a problem with the bmw bikes. But that was solved with different glue and added retainers between the magnets as the upgraded units don't have that problem.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:34 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Actually, the Valeo starters are made in France, and they've got a very good reputation. I guess they make starters for just about everything produced in europe from trucks to high-end sports cars. Other applications didn't have the 'dropped-magnet' problem, it was somehow a problem with the bmw bikes. But that was solved with different glue and added retainers between the magnets as the upgraded units don't have that problem.
The Nordwest (Italian) radiator fan motors had the same problems. Epoxy would deteriorate with time and the magnets would drop on to the armature.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
The Nordwest (Italian) radiator fan motors had the same problems. Epoxy would deteriorate with time and the magnets would drop on to the armature.
It's a heat problem. Heat softens the epoxy and causes it to fail.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:21 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirespokes View Post
Actually, the Valeo starters are made in France, and they've got a very good reputation. I guess they make starters for just about everything produced in europe from trucks to high-end sports cars. Other applications didn't have the 'dropped-magnet' problem, it was somehow a problem with the bmw bikes. But that was solved with different glue and added retainers between the magnets as the upgraded units don't have that problem.
there was a run of valeo guzzi starters that had the same problem. they're basically the same starter. i have a valeo guzzi starter that works perfect, but i bought it after that first run that dropped magnets...
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:29 AM   #517
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Nice to hear. i was on the marketing and sales team that introduced "QuickStix" back in 2003. Have you used the stick yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsorce View Post
I'm running low on blue Loctite again and I was wondering if any of you guys have tried the "stick" type that I've seen on the shelf. I have always used the liquid but I also have a lot of blue spots on my bike sheds cement floor too.
If the stick works as well, I could avoid the spills. Either way, 'when you ride a bike you have got to LOCTITE'.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:09 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spray Head View Post
Nice to hear. i was on the marketing and sales team that introduced "QuickStix" back in 2003. Have you used the stick yet?
I have. Greatest thing since beer Love it, and have virtually done away with my liquid versions. A little hard to find in these parts though I must admit.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:04 PM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spray Head View Post
Nice to hear. i was on the marketing and sales team that introduced "QuickStix" back in 2003. Have you used the stick yet?
Head-are you a fellow Henkeler by chance?

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Old 09-10-2012, 02:09 PM   #520
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I have a pair of sneakers that the heel came off.
They were otherwise in good shape.
Got some of this.


Two years later those sneakers are still running.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:30 PM   #521
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Suzuki Super 1360 threadlocker " or equivalent"?

Dirty,

Gixxer service manual calls for "Thread Lock Cement Super 1360 or equivalent, P/No.: 99000–32130" on brake rotor bolts. Googled it and found a reference to it being for high temp, and also Threebond and Permatex using the number. Couldn't actually confirm your nemeses doing that, but found this:

http://www.threebond.co.uk/PRODUCTS/...0/Default.aspx
1360 High Temperature Nutlock (Up to 200ēC) [392 in "press 1 for English"]
Medium Viscosity
Fixing and sealing of bolts, nuts and screws requiring high thermal resistance
The bikes come with a blue patch on the bolts from the factory.

What Loctite would your recommend on my rotor bolts? I'm thinking blue strength but high-temp capability.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:48 PM   #522
dirty_sanchez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
Dirty,

Gixxer service manual calls for "Thread Lock Cement Super 1360 or equivalent, P/No.: 99000–32130" on brake rotor bolts. Googled it and found a reference to it being for high temp, and also Threebond and Permatex using the number. Couldn't actually confirm your nemeses doing that, but found this:

http://www.threebond.co.uk/PRODUCTS/...0/Default.aspx
1360 High Temperature Nutlock (Up to 200ēC) [392 in "press 1 for English"]
Medium Viscosity
Fixing and sealing of bolts, nuts and screws requiring high thermal resistance
The bikes come with a blue patch on the bolts from the factory.

What Loctite would your recommend on my rotor bolts? I'm thinking blue strength but high-temp capability.
There's no way the the bolts which hold the rotor on the hub get hotter than 300F.

The product they called for is good for near 450F, it's way stronger than you need, and the smallest container it comes in is 50ml.

The blue preapplied dried on product is not available to mere mortals like us. It's called drylock and is only applied at coatings houses for customers like GM, Honda, Suzuki, etc, etc., etc. who use millions of the same size fasteners each year. The color of the drylock product is nothing like the color of the liquids.

Blue liquids are removable, while I have no idea without looking it up the strength of a blue preapplied.

Go to your local Motion Industries, Grainger, Fastenal, Barnes, MSC, Applied Industrial Technologies, and ask for Loctite pn. 1330583. This is a 10ml bottle of one of the new primerless, higher temp (360F) red permanent threadlockers. Once again, there's no way those rotor bolts are going to get up to 360F-even under racing conditions.

Dirty
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:49 PM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infoatnmmoto View Post
I have a pair of sneakers that the heel came off.
They were otherwise in good shape.
Got some of this.


Two years later those sneakers are still running.
Thanks for the good word.

Baby needs shoes.

Dirty
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:49 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
Blue liquids are removable...

Ask for Loctite pn. 1330583. This is a 10ml bottle of one of the new primerless, higher temp (360F) red permanent threadlockers. Once again, there's no way those rotor bolts are going to get up to 360F-even under racing conditions.
Why red, rather than the 243 blue? Maybe it's just because my day job is around race cars, but I don't think of a brake rotor as something that gets permanently installed. I've torched red Loctite out of a bent handlebar before (threaded bar end inserts for hand guards). Wouldn't want to have to do that on M8 fasteners in a large aluminum casting like a wheel. Could be annealing the casting and throwing it in the recycle bin before the fasteners were up to temp to get the wisp of smoke.


Color: Blue
Specification: NSF/ANSI 61
Style: Primerless / Oil Tolerant Liquid
Type: Threadlocker
Performance: Medium Strength
Container Type: Bottle
Container Size: 10 mL
Temperature: -65[DEG]F - 360[DEG]F
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:17 AM   #525
dirty_sanchez
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Taranis-

Blue or Red would be fine. Good that you're already familiar with the blow torch trick for removal of fasteners with red threadlocker.

If you went the red 263 route, you'd likely have to use a little crack pipe size torch to soften the material up enough to allow you to remove the fasteners.

If you didn't want to go that route, pn. 1329837, the blue 243 primerless threadlocker would be fine as well in my opinion.

Of course my opinion is worth exactly what you paid.

Seriously, the blue would be fine.

Dirty
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