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Old 08-25-2012, 05:45 AM   #68566
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetable View Post
Any warning. My tard is currently leaking at the seal when she gets hot, I'd rather not find myself hot in a corner with a well lubricated rear tire.
No warning but it usually happens to a cold engine. Like first thing in the morning.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:58 AM   #68567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
No warning but it usually happens to a cold engine. Like first thing in the morning.
Far better that way. I mean, it makes for a crappy day regardless, but better that way than any other. I've known of a couple DRZSMs to lose the countershaft seal while everything is good and hot.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:16 AM   #68568
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Cool2 No worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglingogre View Post
Took the sprocket cover off to check if it needed a degrease this arvo.....

Glad I did.



Missing one bolt completely, one is oh so loose (left) and the third (right) is moving. This could have been oh so bad. Sprocket moves if it's wiggled.

Hopefully the missing one is not snapped off and in the drive.

Cheers

Pete
One bolt will work fine actually. There is no load on the bolts and the sprocket can move around on the spline without problem. Some people use a snap ring (C-clip) instead of the bolt plate. The missing bolt just fell out on the ground and it may have been many miles ago.The 14-15-16 tooth sprockets use a 3 bolt retainer generally, the 13 tooth uses a 2 bolt retainer and they all work fine. Stock has a rubber gasket for anti-rattle I believe but is not required.

The important thing is to not have the sprocket come off the shaft, which I don't know if it can with the sprocket cover on. So, no worries.
Get a new bolt and use blue loctite and you can move on to real worries like running out of gas.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #68569
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Here is a good write up for light reflection:
http://drriders.com/topic5526.html
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:52 AM   #68570
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I picked up the dt-1 filter. It's my opinion the dt-1 meets my expectations better than the twin air filter. And it's the same price as the twin air on procycle's site.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:29 AM   #68571
smilin jack
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Missing Bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglingogre View Post
Took the sprocket cover off to check if it needed a degrease this arvo.....

Glad I did.



Missing one bolt completely, one is oh so loose (left) and the third (right) is moving. This could have been oh so bad. Sprocket moves if it's wiggled.

Hopefully the missing one is not snapped off and in the drive.

Cheers

Pete
Yes blue loctite is your friend. Pretty much every threaded fastener on my DR gets a TINY amount to keep the bolt from vibrating loose.

Wilco farm stores have a HUGE assortment of metric screws, bolts and fancy fasteners. Check them out. No I don't work for them... just shop there.

Dave
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:52 PM   #68572
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrophyHunter View Post
Emmbeedee - sorry to hear the ride was cut short but probably the prudent choice. Just a hint on turning in the rental if you have a choice. Check how much it costs to turn it in at different return locations. Some are overstocked on certain trucks/trailers and charge you more to drop it there vs 5 - 10 miles away. I rented a car trailer one way and saved 30% by driving 4 miles.

It's good the two of you get out together.
Actually, we did save $106 by returning the truck to a different depot than the one nearest us. It was more like 50km farther, but in a direction we needed to go anyway to try to find some parts and oil.

But thanks for the suggestion.

The really funny part of the truck rental was that the depot couldn't get the U-Haul web site up to get me a price until I offered to tether my iPhone to their laptop. Then the site came in beautifully.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:42 PM   #68573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
No warning but it usually happens to a cold engine. Like first thing in the morning.
I too have had that seal blow out. I was told by a Suzuki factory mechanic, that it comes down to one of two things: 1) Scrag blocking the oil hole in the counter shaft. That hole being blocked up increases the oil pressure in there and it has to give somewhere i.e. that seal. OR 2) Oil viscosity. I was using a 20W 50 oil and on cold mornings this was too thick to move through the system and, again, that pressure has to give somewhere. Before you put the new seal in check for scrag and/or your oil viscosity or you may keep having the same problems. (I think the book says 10W or 15W.) Cheers, Pete.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:02 PM   #68574
Mambo Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHillsNoTrees View Post
I too have had that seal blow out. I was told by a Suzuki factory mechanic, that it comes down to one of two things: 1) Scrag blocking the oil hole in the counter shaft. That hole being blocked up increases the oil pressure in there and it has to give somewhere i.e. that seal. OR 2) Oil viscosity. I was using a 20W 50 oil and on cold mornings this was too thick to move through the system and, again, that pressure has to give somewhere. Before you put the new seal in check for scrag and/or your oil viscosity or you may keep having the same problems. (I think the book says 10W or 15W.) Cheers, Pete.
You've got me feeling even better about using Rotella T-6 now, but what is Scrag?
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:35 AM   #68575
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHillsNoTrees View Post
I too have had that seal blow out. I was told by a Suzuki factory mechanic, that it comes down to one of two things: 1) Scrag blocking the oil hole in the counter shaft. That hole being blocked up increases the oil pressure in there and it has to give somewhere i.e. that seal. OR 2) Oil viscosity. I was using a 20W 50 oil and on cold mornings this was too thick to move through the system and, again, that pressure has to give somewhere. Before you put the new seal in check for scrag and/or your oil viscosity or you may keep having the same problems. (I think the book says 10W or 15W.) Cheers, Pete.
They can also blow out if Suzuki has machined the holes too big.
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:25 AM   #68576
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHillsNoTrees View Post
OR 2) Oil viscosity. I was using a 20W 50 oil and on cold mornings this was too thick to move through the system and, again, that pressure has to give somewhere. Before you put the new seal in check for scrag and/or your oil viscosity or you may keep having the same problems. (I think the book says 10W or 15W.) Cheers, Pete.
The problem happened shortly after I switched to 20W50 oil, so I think that is probably the reason it happened on this bike. I checked and it looks like the oil passageway is clean, so I put the original seal back in with three dabs of JB Weld to hold it since I can't find seals in town, and need to order them in. I also went back to 10W40 oil.

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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:23 AM   #68577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
The problem happened shortly after I switched to 20W50 oil, so I think that is probably the reason it happened on this bike. I checked and it looks like the oil passageway is clean, so I put the original seal back in with three dabs of JB Weld to hold it since I can't find seals in town, and need to order them in. I also went back to 10W40 oil.

Just curious, what was the temperature outside when the seal came out? I've been running 20W-50 and haven't had any problems. The owners manual says 20W-50 can be used at a minimum temperature of 14* F ( minus 10 C ) I ride in the Arizona desert and we rarely see 14*F here. I switched from 10W-40 because in this heat the transmission felt like the 10w-40 thinned out like water and didn't cushion the gears. I put in the 20W-50 and the transmission shifts much smoother.

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Old 08-26-2012, 01:50 PM   #68578
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
Just curious, what was the temperature outside when the seal came out? I've been running 20W-50 and haven't had any problems. The owners manual says 20W-50 can be used at a minimum temperature of 14* F ( minus 10 C ) I ride in the Arizona desert and we rarely see 14*F here. I switched from 10W-40 because in this heat the transmission felt like the 10w-40 thinned out like water and didn't cushion the gears. I put in the 20W-50 and the transmission shifts much smoother.

Tech23
Wasn't cold, I'd say it was about 12C.

The seal stayed in today. Went about 300 km.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #68579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
Wasn't cold, I'd say it was about 12C.

The seal stayed in today. Went about 300 km.
That's good, I hope I don't have any trouble with mine running 20W-50 all the time. From what I hear that seal bore isn't very deep and not much surface area to grip the seal. Very important to have the seal OD and the case ID free of oil and bone dry when installing the seal. I've heard of this seal coming out on some bikes more than a few times.

At the dealer I used to work at some of the Techs would use Permatex Aviation Sealer on the outside Diameter of differential side seals that would pop out on occasion. Sets up into a tacky sticky state.

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80019.../dp/B000HBM3QQ

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Old 08-26-2012, 04:07 PM   #68580
Emmbeedee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
That's good, I hope I don't have any trouble with mine running 20W-50 all the time. From what I hear that seal bore isn't very deep and not much surface area to grip the seal. Very important to have the seal OD and the case ID free of oil and bone dry when installing the seal. I've heard of this seal coming out on some bikes more than a few times.
I think part of the problem is that there is not a shoulder for the seal to settle against when you drive it in, and as you say, the seal is not very substantial, at 7mm wide, so it's fairly easy for the seal to pop out. I hope my three dabs of JB Weld do the trick and if not, I'll try the Permatex with a new seal.

I put the old seal back in dry, into a dry case, so that's a start, anyway. Didn't take much to push it in, though it wasn't quite possible to do it without a rubber mallet on a socket/drift. After a couple of rides, I'll take the sprocket off and check the seal is still in the right place.

I wonder if it might not be a good idea to make up a spacer ring for behind the seal, resting on the outer bearing race, so the seal has something to keep it straight?
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Want to know more about the Garmin Montana? See the Wisdom and FAQ Thread.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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