Lance Armstrong

[WVhillbilly]

Originally Posted by JNRobert

Nigerian, please. It's a nice narrative but it's just more low information pablum.

Unless you would like to bestow us with the magic information you possess.
Give a bunch of known dopers immunity to cry foul against a team mate, claim evidence that the accused can't see and use imaginary authority to "strip" wins that happened before your organization existed.
Sounds fair.

[Sutherngintelmen]

I wonder how many of our tax dollars were spent on this escapade?

[Steve in ATL]

Originally Posted by BobbySands

And you are no longer invited to this conversation. Primary school name calling is where I stopped reading.

A good day to you, sir.

Don't get mad at me because you exhibited a douchenozzle attitude and got called out on both it and your mistaken impressions.

[shrineclown]

Originally Posted by WVhillbilly

Unless you would like to bestow us with the magic information you possess.
Give a bunch of known dopers immunity to cry foul against a team mate, claim evidence that the accused can't see and use imaginary authority to "strip" wins that happened before your organization existed.
Sounds fair.

+1

For someone who appears to envision themselves as high brow elite; I would think he would produce the evidence he believes is so evident. It would seem to me he is the mudslinger, and fails to realize he is grabbing from the dung pile on this one.

You can hate Lance and that is fine, you can assume he doped that is your prerogative; but you really do not have hard evidence to prove it. Nor does Tygart, otherwise it would have been presented to the public or leaked to the public. It is all talk, talk, talk and that proves nothing either way.

[BMWORBUST]

Originally Posted by WVhillbilly

Since you don't know me, or how much I know about this.
Please put me on ignore and run along to troll elsewhere.

But I guess you do posess all the evidence.
Don't you Mr. Tygart?

Interesting method of avoidence. Your comments illustrate that you don't know the subject matter, and because I know more than you then you say I'm a troll. Well, I guess I'm glad that I am because being smart is hard work and a virtue.

I have read, covered and debated this subject of Doping for two decades. I know what happened.

Lance was advised to give up which will ensure the evidence will never be presented. Case closed, so nothing comes out. His partner, his number one friend, the most loyal person he knows, and the person he dedicated two autobiagraphies to was going to testify under oath. George Hincapie, was going to get into details, but now he won't be heard.

It’s exceedingly rare for athletes to rat each other out for doping. It’s rarer still for someone with nothing to gain—that is, someone who isn’t Jose Canseco—to talk openly about a teammate’s drug use. When it does happen, it tends to be devastating. Even though Roger Clemens was ultimately found not guilty of perjury, his reputation was destroyed by Andy Pettitte’s declaration that the Rocket had told him he’d taken HGH. Hincapie’s testimony promised to be more extensive and direct, implicating himself as a participant—perhaps in exchange for a reduced suspension—in the alleged doping of Armstrong’s cycling teams. For a man who has called everyone who questioned him a liar and a fraud, this was an existential threat: The man he trusted most telling the whole world he cheated his way to the mountaintop.

[BMWORBUST]

Nearly his entire team has admitted the truth. He hasn't though and probably never will. Do you believe one man over the many men who helped win him those titles?

Do you honestly believe he was clean while his whole team was cheating? Do you really believe they were all lying when they implicated him in teaching them how to do said cheating? Do you honestly believe that? If so, you're either five years old or delusional.

Let me guess: Jerry Sandusky was just misunderstood, right? All of those boys were lying too, just like Lance's teammates.

[WVhillbilly]

My apologies, I mistook you for a troll when you are really an asshole.
Cool story Bro.

[Dranrab Luap]

Originally Posted by BMWORBUST

Interesting method of avoidence. Your comments illustrate that you don't know the subject matter, and because I know more than you then you say I'm a troll. Well, I guess I'm glad that I am because being smart is hard work and a virtue.

I have read, covered and debated this subject of Doping for two decades. I know what happened.

Lance was advised to give up which will ensure the evidence will never be presented. Case closed, so nothing comes out. His partner, his number one friend, the most loyal person he knows, and the person he dedicated two autobiagraphies to was going to testify under oath. George Hincapie, was going to get into details, but now he won't be heard.

It’s exceedingly rare for athletes to rat each other out for doping. It’s rarer still for someone with nothing to gain—that is, someone who isn’t Jose Canseco—to talk openly about a teammate’s drug use. When it does happen, it tends to be devastating. Even though Roger Clemens was ultimately found not guilty of perjury, his reputation was destroyed by Andy Pettitte’s declaration that the Rocket had told him he’d taken HGH. Hincapie’s testimony promised to be more extensive and direct, implicating himself as a participant—perhaps in exchange for a reduced suspension—in the alleged doping of Armstrong’s cycling teams. For a man who has called everyone who questioned him a liar and a fraud, this was an existential threat: The man he trusted most telling the whole world he cheated his way to the mountaintop.

Oh educated one,

Avoidance

Autobiographies

[RTLover]

Originally Posted by BMWORBUST

Nearly his entire team has admitted the truth. He hasn't though and probably never will. Do you believe one man over the many men who helped win him those titles?

Do you honestly believe he was clean while his whole team was cheating? Do you really believe they were all lying when they implicated him in teaching them how to do said cheating? Do you honestly believe that? If so, you're either five years old or delusional.

Let me guess: Jerry Sandusky was just misunderstood, right? All of those boys were lying too, just like Lance's teammates.

Surely at least some of the 'witnesses' will end up writing books or articles that should lay out the 'evidence'. I use those two words with caution because unless and until what they say convinces me, I will give LA the benefit of the doubt. In my career I crossed paths with many people who lied to save their own backsides at the expense of their friends or accomplices. Do I believe LA's team mates? Not without corroboration that is irrefutable. That may be a high bar but anything less would still leave a reasonable doubt, the standard by which we judge guilt.

The comparison with the Sandusky case doesn't fit. Those witnesses weren't testifying to salvage their careers or reputations.

[PoundSand]

Originally Posted by BMWORBUST

Lance was advised to give up which will ensure the evidence will never be presented. Case closed, so nothing comes out. His partner, his number one friend, the most loyal person he knows, and the person he dedicated two autobiagraphies to was going to testify under oath. George Hincapie, was going to get into details, but now he won't be heard.

It’s exceedingly rare for athletes to rat each other out for doping. It’s rarer still for someone with nothing to gain—that is, someone who isn’t Jose Canseco—to talk openly about a teammate’s drug use. When it does happen, it tends to be devastating. Even though Roger Clemens was ultimately found not guilty of perjury, his reputation was destroyed by Andy Pettitte’s declaration that the Rocket had told him he’d taken HGH. Hincapie’s testimony promised to be more extensive and direct, implicating himself as a participant—perhaps in exchange for a reduced suspension—in the alleged doping of Armstrong’s cycling teams. For a man who has called everyone who questioned him a liar and a fraud, this was an existential threat: The man he trusted most telling the whole world he cheated his way to the mountaintop.

1- we don't know what hincapie was going to testify. like pettite, it may have been "i think i heard...but i could be wrong." um, ok.
2- see highlights. i think lance cheated. to be as certain as you, i'd like to see a failed test or testimony from someone who has nothing to gain.

[Mercury264]

Big fan of cycling and I idolized Lance, I really did. Not any more

As for him never having failed a test, he has but he found some bullshit way to get out of it - I forget the full details and I'm just too fucking jaded to go look but I seem to recall it involved a backdated prescription. How convenient.

[Dranrab Luap]

This is an interesting read. Tygart sounds like an idiot of the highest order.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycli...D=r5mln1jr3w19

[WVhillbilly]

He simply wanted Lance to meet with him, grovel publicly, and kiss his ring.
Then he would bestow upon him the victories he earned.

He still claims to have stripped away his wins, when he has no power to do so.

[skwidd]

Roadie slapfight!

You guys take your shoes off before somebody slips and hits their head on the coffee shop table.

[h2o_snow]

Originally Posted by skwidd

Roadie slapfight!

You guys take your shoes off before somebody slips and hits their head on the coffee shop table.

+1 Hey, hey that about sums this thread up.

Did vs did not. Who besides the lycra clad posers even cares now?

I respect the man for hammering down and beating a bunch of dope fiends 7X. He rode the ride, decided what he needed to do to win, and will need to live with it (the alleged doping) for the rest of his life.

Pretty big burden IMO. Paying the piper.

LA was a world class performer in a tainted sport. I accept it and don't give a rats ass other than I'd like to see his 40 year old triathlon racing results.