Looking for an adventure bike, but do I want ABS?

[PeterW]

Originally Posted by Jonny955

The S10. according to the reviews, is the only one with an ABS system that is still usable in the dirt. even so, there are many riders who would like to be able to switch it off so it's not 100%.

Peter W, the off-road riding I have done requires that you lock wheels up (deliberately) sometimes to improve control and furrow the loose dirt in front of the bike to aid stopping. I have never met any other off-road rider (including professional instructors like Si Pavey) who advocates leaving the ABS switched on for better off-road control. I take my hat off to you!

Jon

I'm not a riding God. I lock wheels in those conditions and I usually fall off. I doubt I'm unique in that.
I'm not racing, my objective is getting from A->B without falling off, not as fast as possible.

Just grabbing a handful of brake and leaving it locked isn't going to be much use agreed - but for me at least ABS lets me use more brake than I could otherwise, which means shorter stopping distances.

All I can suggest is that you try one of the bikes with "known good" ABS, (S10, DL650, others ?) and play on a nice wide dirt road some time - I think you'll be surprised how well the ABS works.

Pete

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by Jonny955

The S10. according to the reviews, is the only one with an ABS system that is still usable in the dirt. even so, there are many riders who would like to be able to switch it off so it's not 100%.

Not arguing that. All I am saying is that there are too many general rules running around. In some situations you will need to turn ABS off. Some bikes a lot sooner than others. Make an informed choice about the bike you are riding is all I'm saying. That requires getting to know it.

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by danketchpel

I'll take my motorcycle riding with the pure and direct experience it is supposed to be. I don't even like Yamaha's interference in direct throttle control with their ride by wire programming on the S10.

That's fine. You can disable it with a 15c fuse. However my feeling is it was done because of a few (thousand?) people complaining about EFI "snatchiness" so they de-snatched it a bit. Maybe a bit too much. The whole emissions thing may be a part of it, as YAMAHA designed the bike for the next set of standards. May have had the marketing department asking for a more "slide carb" feel while the tech heads were thinking that would make the emissions thing easier as well.
Some who have disabled it put it back to standard as it was getting a bit much for them. An off option would be good I suppose.

And yes there is no substitute for getting to know the dynamics of a "RAW" bike. totally agree. I still prefer to have this stuff around. I am not always 100% switched on myself, especially when tired, distracted or just plain out of practice.

[Ixxioixxl]

Originally Posted by Jonny955

Ummm....shouldn't you have mentioned to turn OFF the ABS for this little experiment? Otherwise, it's a good way to end up with a broken bike and a hospital bill.

Jon

I did it with the ABS on, I don't have a switch for it since I don't go much rougher than dirt/minimum maintenance type roads.

I should have mentioned that I have only ever had a 2012 DL650 and I have no idea how other bikes would react, might land you in a ditch on different models but mine worked well. I have rode down dirt road/muddy dirt road hills with unknown stuff and water at the bottom a few times since and just kept the back break on most of the time and it worked out. I'm guessing things are about to change a little since I just got my Heidenau K60 Scout tires in the mail to replace stock tires

[JGoody]

Remember that ABS works properly on a bike when it's going straight, not leaned into a turn... but then so do non ABS brakes. So for a panic stop get the bike steering straight if at all possible. When I asked a buddy with ABS, "Do I need it?" the response was "not until you do... and then you really need it." So far I've only had it activate once -- when I tested it out on a nice straight hard stop. Felt the pulsing and the stop was controlled and smooth. All that said I'll take ABS.

[Pecha72]

Originally Posted by JGoody

Remember that ABS works properly on a bike when it's going straight, not leaned into a turn... but then so do non ABS brakes.

There was the ABS-test in Motorrad that I mentioned. They also tested aggressive braking on a curve with a VFR1200A, and came to the general conclusion, that while theorretically possible, in reality the bike won´t low-side because of ABS. The VFR doesn´t even have the latest generation ´race-ABS´, like the CBR1000RR does.

[farnorth1]

Originally Posted by Erant

The accident went too fast for me to fully realize what happened, and I'm unsure whether or not I grabbed the brake. I'm also going to take another motorcycle course (probably the Basic Rider Course 2).

As to the ABS switch, I'll make sure to install one if I do end up getting a Wee.

ABS works....I hear what your saying, practice is good, but nothing happen's in slow mo like tv......sometimes you just want Brakes....now ....kill some speed...yeeee hawwww.....get the ABS for those times......nobody hits the deer they see.....

[vonzipper]

I would say yes..saved my butt a few times on the black-top..get a shut off switch for gravel and dirt..just from my experiences

[SuperCruise]

Modern ABS is great. I have been nothing but impressed with how good the S10 stops with it, including off road.

[Pecha72]

Originally Posted by vonzipper

I would say yes..saved my butt a few times on the black-top..get a shut off switch for gravel and dirt..just from my experiences

For asphalt, it's a no-brainer. For gravel, depends on many many things incuding road condition, and rider's experience. Many riders, (who are not experts on riding outside the tarmac), will actually benefit from a modern ABS on gravel as well. Then there are a few riders, who are better off without it.

[James Adams]

Originally Posted by Pecha72

For asphalt, it's a no-brainer. For gravel, depends on many many things incuding road condition, and rider's experience. Many riders, (who are not experts on riding outside the tarmac), will actually benefit from a modern ABS on gravel as well. Then there are a few riders, who are better off without it.

Besides on pavement, I've been very happy with the Stelvio's ABS on dirt and gravel roads, but the times that I've taken the Stelvio truly off-road (not that that's very smart in the first place, DAMHIK ), I've appreciated being able to easily turn off the ABS so as to be able to lock the tires unimpeded. I would say that this holds true for me also regarding my experience with the Stelvio's traction control system.

But like some others have commented, the Wee (and most big ADV bikes, with the exception of the big KTM) isn't designed to handle the nasty stuff where ABS gets in the way.

[glasswave]

I find the rear ABS very useful in emergency stops. The front not as much. The rear abs allows me to focus on maximising my front brake potential w/o trying to focus on the rear. When I practice emergency stops, my front may "click" just a time or three. I press the back and if it starts abs'ing, I don't really worry about it. If the front abs's, I ease off a tiny bit.

Off road, for gravel at high speeds, it's very nice, you can give the front a few good squeezes to find out where your traction limit is and adjust your speed accordingly. When going down steep, steep inclines, it scares me, but you can always shut down the engine and use the clutch as your rear brake and waddle on down.