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Old 09-02-2012, 10:47 AM   #1186
viajero
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I see that Grosjean has been told that he will not be allowed to participate at Monza due to his screwup today at Spa.

Will it make a difference, change the drivers' behavior on the track?
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #1187
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You can dissect individual accidents all you want and get differing opinions on fault, but once again, the same bozos are involved in a massive shunt that takes out key competitors and could have resulted in serious injuries - Maldonado and Grosjean.

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Old 09-02-2012, 12:11 PM   #1188
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I think you have to sanction the teams as well, because they're not controlling bad on-track behavior by their drivers. I think Renault/Lotus should NOT be allowed a substitute driver at Monza and I think Maldonado should also be banned for at least one race, again with no substitute driver allowed. Lost race points greatly effect the amount of money teams make at season's end. Neither Grosjean or Maldonado seem to be getting it: I can't tell if it's just a lack of IQ or ego mixed with hubris. These are not just racing incidents: they're inappropriate aggression mixed with stupidity. Alonso and Hamilton acted with class after the crashes and Fernando's comment about sitting in the car after the accident briefly because his back hurt but then realizing his car was burning was hilarious: "It was getting hard to breathe because of the smoke so I decided to get out". Paraphrase there.


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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
You can dissect individual accidents all you want and get differing opinions on fault, but once again, the same bozos are involved in a massive shunt that takes out key competitors and could have resulted in serious injuries - Maldonado and Grosjean.

- Mark
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #1189
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Pastor Maldonado has become my least favorite driver in F1. He blatantly jumped the start ("the clutch slipped out of my hands" ) and then he hit Timo Glock. Double grid penalty for Monza. Add to that his impeding Hulkenberg in qualifying, plus his other dangerous moves this season, and you have to think the man's an unprofessional menace who has no business driving in this elite class.

Sweet flag-to-flag run by Button. Lotus goes another race without a win. Nice 5th by Massa.

I was right about the shard-fest at turn 1, but not about how it might happen. I wasn't expecting the mistake to come from Grosjean. Holy cow, that was awful. Alonso came within inches of a wheel to the noggin. They sure spanked Grosjean, a one race ban.

What a track, every time I watch a race there I appreciate its greatness more. A very entertaining race. Terrible TV production by Bernie's crew. We never did see Hulkenberg's pass on Kimi, and they cut away as Schumi was passing Kimi. It's as if the race was too fast for the director.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viajero View Post
I see that Grosjean has been told that he will not be allowed to participate at Monza due to his screwup today at Spa.

Will it make a difference, change the drivers' behavior on the track?
Grosjean seems to be somewhat aware and reflective. He's the GP2 champ, so it's not like he has no racing experience.

One driver I'd like to see back in F1 is Adrian Sutil. I think he might be quite good in a competitive car like the Lotus.

Domenicali makes an interesting point about driver discipline in the lower divisions.

Quote:
"In my view, the most important thing is looking at the behaviour of drivers," he said.

"It has to start in the championships before Formula 1.

"You see it too often in the other series that drivers are very aggressive and try to do something almost over what it is possible to do, so it is important to be very strict since they start racing and then they will arrive in F1 in a better condition for that."
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:28 PM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
What a track, every time I watch a race there I appreciate its greatness more. A very entertaining race. Terrible TV production by Bernie's crew. We never did see Hulkenberg's pass on Kimi, and they cut away as Schumi was passing Kimi. It's as if the race was too fast for the director.


Kimi's pass on Schumi round the outside of Eau Rouge was breathtaking.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Kimi's pass on Schumi round the outside of Eau Rouge was breathtaking.
fantastic pass!

gallery of crash pictures: http://www.photoboxgallery.com/xpbim..._id=1329421247
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:05 PM   #1193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Grosjean seems to be somewhat aware and reflective. He's the GP2 champ, so it's not like he has no racing experience.
"Somewhat" is right. He first reaction was that he didn't think he caused the accident, then said he needed to see the replay, and now he is saying that he takes responsibility for mis-judgment but still maintaining that because he didn't do it deliberately and because he was 100% sure he was clear of Hamilton, that it is just one of those things.

If he was 100% sure he was clear of Hamilton, then he has no business in a F1 race car.



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Old 09-02-2012, 06:30 PM   #1194
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I'll take the unpopular viewpoint i.e. Grosjean, it was a racing incident. Unfortunate, but hardly deserving of a ban. Possibly a grid spot penalty or some such, but not a ban.

He pushed, had a nose plus ahead, and missed the fact that he placed Hamilton's front tire between his front and rear. Is it fortunate that it didn't end in more then busted up cars? Of course.

BUT, it was just after the start, everyone is jockeying for position, their hair is on end, and this is the result.

As far as some saying he is reckless and this is par for the course with him, I must be living in the twilight zone, because I felt that he (outside of some rookie mistakes) has done pretty bloody well for himself thus far....

There, someone had to be contrary to everyone else....
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:51 PM   #1195
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Originally Posted by Ragin Rabbi View Post
As far as some saying he is reckless and this is par for the course with him, I must be living in the twilight zone, because I felt that he (outside of some rookie mistakes) has done pretty bloody well for himself thus far....
He's had early-race crashes in five out of 12 races so far this year. And he came very close to crashing in two others. Meanwhile his teammate in the same car has yet to have a crash this year.

Yes, I think you're in the twilight zone to think he's done "pretty bloody well".

- Mark
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #1196
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Kimi's pass on Schumi round the outside of Eau Rouge was breathtaking.
It was. Webber did the same to Alonso last year. This time it looked like Schumacher lifted.

This video still blows my mind.


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Old 09-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
"Somewhat" is right. He first reaction was that he didn't think he caused the accident, then said he needed to see the replay, and now he is saying that he takes responsibility for mis-judgment but still maintaining that because he didn't do it deliberately and because he was 100% sure he was clear of Hamilton, that it is just one of those things.

If he was 100% sure he was clear of Hamilton, then he has no business in a F1 race car.

- Mark
This is the bit that made me think there's hope for him.

Quote:
"I was to be honest 100 per cent sure I was in front of Lewis but I was not so I need to rethink about my view of the car.

"I am the most angry at myself to have misjudged the gap with Lewis's car."
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #1198
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Well that was an interesting start to the race. I guess bad karma is finally piling up enough on Maldonado to finally start giving him what he deserves!

What was with the trophies? I thought they weren't aloud to have any sort of sponsorship endorsement on them at all from the race sponsor? There was obviously a big yellow shell gasoline symbol in the middle of that shiny dish.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:40 PM   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragin Rabbi View Post
I'll take the unpopular viewpoint i.e. Grosjean, it was a racing incident. Unfortunate, but hardly deserving of a ban. Possibly a grid spot penalty or some such, but not a ban.
Couldn't agree more. The ban seems to be based upon the amount of carnage that resulted. I'm tempted to add that the penalty includes an element of retribution for having taken out a Ferrari.

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What was with the trophies? I thought they weren't aloud to have any sort of sponsorship endorsement on them at all from the race sponsor? There was obviously a big yellow shell gasoline symbol in the middle of that shiny dish.
The Ardennes is region known for it's local shellfish, especially scallops.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #1200
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Baloney, Grosjean's been to the Principal's office many times this season already and is still pulling these extremely dangerous moves. This wasn't a frivolous mistake, it was the act of intent by a malicious brat. He didn't intend to prang Hamilton but HE was the responsible driver and almost killed someone. INTENT doesn't matter anyway, all that matters is what happened. He's refused to accept correction and should be traded off to a minor-league team until he learns some car control. The ban is based on the amount of harm he caused and two drivers, Hamilton and Alonso, suffered injury. If I managed penalties he'd be banned for five races and forced to start every friggin' race from the pits for the remainder of the season. Renault/Lotus should be ashamed of him and offer to pay for all the damage to competitor cars he caused. Any of you had a friend killed in a racing incident? I have, and the competitor that caused the wreck by driving way too aggressively was rightfully sued by the family of his victim.

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Couldn't agree more. The ban seems to be based upon the amount of carnage that resulted. I'm tempted to add that the penalty includes an element of retribution for having taken out a Ferrari.

The Ardennes is region known for it's local shellfish, especially scallops.
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