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Old 09-03-2012, 01:10 AM   #1201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish1 View Post
This wasn't a frivolous mistake, it was the act of intent by a malicious brat. He didn't intend to prang Hamilton but HE was the responsible driver and almost killed someone. INTENT doesn't matter anyway, all that matters is what happened.
I'm wondering if it's possible, within the constraints of one small paragraph, to be more self-contradictory.

As you say, baloney.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:05 AM   #1202
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Bad driving led to a wreck that almost killed a man.

Not sure what more you need to suspend a guy.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:53 AM   #1203
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
It was. Webber did the same to Alonso last year. This time it looked like Schumacher lifted.
it looked like he missed a shift... shortly after that the 3 stooges reported a radio transmission saying he'd lost 6th gear.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:55 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Ragin Rabbi View Post
I'll take the unpopular viewpoint i.e. Grosjean, it was a racing incident. Unfortunate, but hardly deserving of a ban. Possibly a grid spot penalty or some such, but not a ban.

He pushed, had a nose plus ahead, and missed the fact that he placed Hamilton's front tire between his front and rear. Is it fortunate that it didn't end in more then busted up cars? Of course.

BUT, it was just after the start, everyone is jockeying for position, their hair is on end, and this is the result.

As far as some saying he is reckless and this is par for the course with him, I must be living in the twilight zone, because I felt that he (outside of some rookie mistakes) has done pretty bloody well for himself thus far....

There, someone had to be contrary to everyone else....
I think you're pretty much spot-on.
It was unfortunate, but a racing incident.
10 grid spot penalty sure. Ban? too harsh. I think the F in F1 still stands for Ferrari in this case.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:52 AM   #1205
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No that was more than a racing incident. Given his history this season the ban is appropriate.

Given that how is it Maldanado is still driving?
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:01 AM   #1206
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Given that how is it Maldanado is still driving?
exactly....
maybe because he didn't pass Alonso earlier in the year?
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #1207
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Grosjean, 5 Retirments, four top five finishes.

Australia, wreck; Malaysia, spin; Monaco, wreck; Europe, alternator; Belgium, wreck.

So, to me this doesn't look like the work of an idiot, but rather the work of a rookie. He is currently eighth in the points.

Is it due to whom he took out that there is such a witch-hunt on? Grab your pitchforks and torches, the rookie took out Hamilton and Alonso through a rookie mistake!!! Burn him!!!!

Do we forget some of the spectacular (though not that frequent making them more spectacular) gaffs by Hamilton, Webber, and Vettel?

C'mon, get off his ass. It was a rookie mistake requiring only a freaking grid-spot penalty. Nothing more, nothing less. If it had been a Hamilton or Webber or Vettel or someone like that, it would have been five or eight or something grid-spots.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #1208
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I'm not going to get worked up about it, but I think it's a little paranoid to believe that the penalty is big red related.

He almost killed a man. That's sufficient.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:23 AM   #1209
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I'm stuck wondering why drivers in the pinnacle of motorsports, who supposedly have a wealth of experience and talent, still insist on making bonehead moves before the first corner of the first lap. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. Some, including innocents, have paid with their lives.

I've seen it happen all to often in lesser series as well, all the way down to SCCA club racing during my time doing that. Not too surprising there. But in F1, I expect a higher level of intelligence. Maybe my expectations are misplaced.

There is talk of enclosed cockpits for F1 cars due to safety concerns. We'll see how that works out.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:32 AM   #1210
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I believe F1 is attempting to send a message. That message being stop the bonehead moves. They've been very tolerant and it's shown in the increase in dumbass moves. Yesterday showed the old maxim that you cannot win on the first lap but you sure can lose is true.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #1211
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Amped up, knowing that anything can and does happen in the run up to the first corner, jockeying for position...

Frankly, I'm amazed it doesn't happen EVERY race.

And a driver can be killed at almost any point in the race.

What was it, two years ago? The Webber incident? Where was HIS race ban?

Hamilton vs. Alonso, pit entrance in China. No possible loss of life there? Indianapolis, Kubika vs. Kobiashi I believe? Race ban?

Sorry, he is a rookie, so they dog-piled him with a penalty.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
I believe F1 is attempting to send a message. That message being stop the bonehead moves. They've been very tolerant and it's shown in the increase in dumbass moves. Yesterday showed the old maxim that you cannot win on the first lap but you sure can lose is true.
I really don't think there has been an increase, I things like this have been happening I. This series, and all others for years and years. They mature eventually, and then the next crop of rookies show up, and dumb moves happen again.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:24 PM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragin Rabbi View Post
Amped up, knowing that anything can and does happen in the run up to the first corner, jockeying for position...

Frankly, I'm amazed it doesn't happen EVERY race.

And a driver can be killed at almost any point in the race.

What was it, two years ago? The Webber incident? Where was HIS race ban?

Hamilton vs. Alonso, pit entrance in China. No possible loss of life there? Indianapolis, Kubika vs. Kobiashi I believe? Race ban?

Sorry, he is a rookie, so they dog-piled him with a penalty.
Webber's wreck was not the result of irresponsible, reckless driving.

As this discussion shows, it can be hard to separate accident from carelessnes.

But in the real world, on such distinctions rest the difference between a messy accident... and prison time for manslaughter.

Someone has to make the judgment. The stewards and the FIA have done so. Time to move on.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:43 PM   #1214
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And the opinions of arm-chair racers and facts.

I am not calling you out, just pointing things out. Your idea of fact and my idea of fact are different on this (and probably other) incident.

You are right, it is over, but far from done.

edit; for fun I looked up Webber's shunt. The three sites I hit quickly said that Webber ran into the back of Kovalainen while Kovalainen was defending. So had there been (and thankfully there wasn't) a death there it would have been suicide?

See, you see Webber as being responsible and in control, I see Webber as having been irresponsible and reckless. Same incident, two arm-chair racers, two different opinions.
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Ragin Rabbi screwed with this post 09-03-2012 at 08:49 PM
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:54 PM   #1215
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'Kin 'ell. Talking about deaths that didn't happen and manslaughter is a bit OTT.

Grosjean obviously believed that he had his pass on Hamilton done and dusted. He was lining up to try getting down the inside of Perez at La Source. He did move towards Hamilton quite sharply but that was before he was slightly ahead of the McLaren. Thereafter, the move was to line-up for the fast approaching apex.

Hamilton could have moved to the right earlier, though he didn't have to and Grosjean may have passed safely. That's just as likely as it is that someone might have been injured or worse.

After the impact between the Lotus and the McLaren, both drivers were mere passengers. It's not as if Grosjean went barrelling into those ahead intentionally.

It was an avoidable collision, just like many others that have occurred this and previous seasons. It looks as though Grosjean has been handed down an exemplary punishment simply because of the numbers of cars that became involved.

Had Grosjean and Hamilton had exactly the same collision on another lap when the field was spread and no other drivers were unlucky enough to be caught-up in it, would he have received a one race ban?

I doubt it. It would have been a ten place grid penalty at Monza.
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