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Old 09-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #376
Navin
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
And if they would have asked how to take 75 pounds off without weakening the bike while. keeping the cost under $40k?

I don't want a BMW/Ducati/Triumph/MG/Yamaha: but I could be interested in a KTM version of them.
I said 50-75, and with all the R&D I think 50 would be a good target rather than what they came up with!

They could have moved more towards the SE as a start, single exhaust and put $ into weight loss rather than 150 HP, no? The LC-8 was awesome, ten years ago! Look at development in their own EXCs and Husabergs as far as simplifing and weight loss. I'll bet the engine could drop 20lbs easily with new castings and SOHCs. It could also have dropped in displacement and made 100 HP too. A reinforced plastic subframe fuel tank fed thru a thin front tank would be a good start. Husaberg 70 degree style airfilter you don't need to dig thru 20 bolts top get out. I could go on but nobody would want less rotating engine mass and a 400ish lbs bike that was easier to service, right?

They targeted the brands I mentioned, but those brands don't build anything that interest me. The last thing on my list of wants is 150 HP, been there and don't need it. Useless numbers on a street/dirt machine.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I said 50-75, and with all the R&D I think 50 would be a good target rather than what they came up with!

They could have moved more towards the SE as a start, single exhaust and put $ into weight loss rather than 150 HP, no? The LC-8 was awesome, ten years ago! Look at development in their own EXCs and Husabergs as far as simplifing and weight loss. I'll bet the engine could drop 20lbs easily with new castings and SOHCs. It could also have dropped in displacement and made 100 HP too. A reinforced plastic subframe fuel tank fed thru a thin front tank would be a good start. Husaberg 70 degree style airfilter you don't need to dig thru 20 bolts top get out. I could go on but nobody would want less rotating engine mass and a 400ish lbs bike that was easier to service, right?

They targeted the brands I mentioned, but those brands don't build anything that interest me. The last thing on my list of wants is 150 HP, been there and don't need it. Useless numbers on a street/dirt machine.
It's odd that the asphalt&rubber article quoted a few posts back is still talking about the USA dealers meeting powerpoint and the 2014 1290 being the bike that will get the 19" front since FechFech's previous post quotes the German review saying that there will be a 1190 non-R with the 19" front.

If the Ducati/Triumph is the high hp target I'm surprised they didn't refocus the existing SMT into this new 1190 Adventure role and for the 21/18" R version have a smaller v-twin, less hp, weight loss as suggested above.

I get why you'd want 150hp, I just don't get why you'd want it on a 21"/18" equipped dual-sport bike.

crazybrit screwed with this post 09-08-2012 at 09:16 PM
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:47 AM   #378
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It's odd that the asphalt&rubber article quoted a few posts back is still talking about the USA dealers meeting powerpoint and the 2014 1290 being the bike that will get the 19" front since FechFech's previous post quotes the German review saying that there will be a 1190 non-R with the 19" front.

If the Ducati/Triumph is the high hp target I'm surprised they didn't refocus the existing SMT into this new 1190 Adventure role and for the 21/18" R version have a smaller v-twin, less hp, weight loss as suggested above.

I get why you'd want 150hp, I just don't get why you'd want it on a 21"/18" equipped dual-sport bike.

If the actual manifestation of the 1190 adventure proves to be more powerful (i sure could use 150hp on long hauls) and lighter than the 990 I don't get why you re against it...especially considering the fact that they will give you the option to reduce that monstrous power to 100hp for off roading....(I'm also very intrested to see how the front ABS-on read ABS-off will be in off roading...in theory it should be great)....
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:12 AM   #379
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I get that its too big, too heavy, too complex and has too much HP for your current needs. However, as mentioned before, I'm the target customer for this bike and you clearly are not. This bike has made me re-think my decision that the MTS1200 is my next bike and I will certainly wait until more info on the 1290 is available before I make a purchase.
my definition of an all rounder at this point includes (but is by no means limited to) loading my bike with 50 lbs of gear and heading out for a few days with a passenger. I'm not getting any younger so comfort is important to me especially when riding all day for multiple days. I'm looking for something that can be ridden hard and is a blast solo on twisty, bumpy backroads but also capable on the long haul which means; decent range, comfort for 2, room for a lot of stuff and dirt road ready.
I have owned an 950SE, 950ADV and now own a 950SM and an HP2e...all awesome bikes for their intended purposes. And I would argue that even 100HP is useless/overkill off road. In contrast IMO 100HP even on a 400lb bike is underpowered and non-satisfying for a lot of street riding especially wihen fully loaded with 400+ lbs on board. I just dont get people who say 150HP is useless on the street??? Perhaps it is simply a statement of the fact that some people ride differently than you? Although i would agree that the bike you describe would be awesome it's a completely different and much smaller target market than the new 1290 is aiming at.....and considering KTM is in business to make money would they even consider building such a bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I said 50-75, and with all the R&D I think 50 would be a good target rather than what they came up with!

They could have moved more towards the SE as a start, single exhaust and put $ into weight loss rather than 150 HP, no? The LC-8 was awesome, ten years ago! Look at development in their own EXCs and Husabergs as far as simplifing and weight loss. I'll bet the engine could drop 20lbs easily with new castings and SOHCs. It could also have dropped in displacement and made 100 HP too. A reinforced plastic subframe fuel tank fed thru a thin front tank would be a good start. Husaberg 70 degree style airfilter you don't need to dig thru 20 bolts top get out. I could go on but nobody would want less rotating engine mass and a 400ish lbs bike that was easier to service, right?

They targeted the brands I mentioned, but those brands don't build anything that interest me. The last thing on my list of wants is 150 HP, been there and don't need it. Useless numbers on a street/dirt machine.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:50 AM   #380
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My Ducati is claimed 150 hp. I don't know, it feels slow to me in the mountains. It will scoot above 90 mph but getting there just doesn't do much for me. The 90 hp SE is a lot more exciting spinning the tire rather than just pinning it and shifting at 70 mph to 2nd. Neither power wheelie although the SE definitely unloads the suspension. The multi has 3 different maps, and I find they are all useless, I just keep it in 150HP "high" even on bad roads. If I want to accelerate slower, I give it less throttle?

The new Adv looks like a great replacement for the Multi and actually have off-road prowness. I would definitely hope for RC8R power.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:39 PM   #381
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[QUOTE=gkaan;19553327]And I would argue that even 100HP is useless/overkill off road.

Agreed but building a DS with 50% more power still makes no sense to me! Sounds like you agree?


In contrast IMO 100HP even on a 400lb bike is underpowered and non-satisfying for a lot of street riding especially wihen fully loaded with 400+ lbs on board. I just dont get people who say 150HP is useless on the street??? Perhaps it is simply a statement of the fact that some people ride differently than you? /QUOTE]

I can't see how 150 is a reasonable street number, I've owned 2 ZZR1200s and know 150 HP. It is USELESS on the street, even 2 up on a +500lbs bike with sticky street tires like that ZZR. I sold them both off after learning and the re-learning that 40-70 MPH roads at a putt-putt pace of +90-140 MPH was not necessary. I'd shift that thing at 2k RPMs and still be loafing along at insane speeds. That power level is great for riding at speeds in excess of 125 MPH and 1/4 mile dragstrips. Would a 250 HP Adv be better?

I gear my 950s for how I ride, 16/50 currently on the SE and my just sold SM was 15/41. I didn't "need" 90 HP on that streetbike, it hauled the mail with real gearing!

Yes, it is great for you I guess? How often you will tap the 150 HP and hit the rev limiter is a question I would ask myself though. My ZZR went to redline a handful of times in the combined 15k miles I owned both of them. Wow a few times and then? Useless. I can't incorperate a 9.5 second 1/4 into my DS riding, or my street riding!

Bigger and bigger is all we ever seem to get, more power, more weight. Even the Mini Cooper has swelled up, Miata too. The Adv in this iteration is a big failure to me, maybe it'll help KTM, maybe it won't. As a dirt KTMer since 1998 and the buyer of the second 950 my dealer got the second day he had it, and a 3X LC-8 owner, they are moving from their core supporters. Distancing their street bikes from their dirt dealers was a big signal of that too.

Good luck with it if you get it.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:47 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Yes, it is great for you I guess? How often you will tap the 150 HP and hit the rev limiter is a question I would ask myself though. My ZZR went to redline a handful of times in the combined 15k miles I owned both of them. Wow a few times and then? Useless. I can't incorperate a 9.5 second 1/4 into my DS riding, or my street riding!
60 km far mi house exist a road similar to the Dragon Tail, but longer, and every two weeks my friends and I go to race there, and in every curve I use the red line in every shift.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:48 PM   #383
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60 km far mi house exist a road similar to the Dragon Tail, but longer, and every two weeks my friends and I go to race there, and in every curve I use the red line in every shift.

And your bike is 150 HP? Or a 90 HP 950?
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:50 PM   #384
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And your bike is 150 HP? Or a 90 HP 950?
Is a 145 HP Yamaha FJR 1300 AS.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #385
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And tap dancing on the shifter and rev limiter gets you to about 2 or 3 times the speed limits in the USA which brings an arrest in most states. A 150HP bike WFO is alot on a real road course, nevermind the street with its lack of traffic control, run-offs and closed course safety measures.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:16 PM   #386
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Lucky us the police just control speed here on the highways, is very strange to find them in small roads. Anyway I use Waze all the time.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:28 PM   #387
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i'm curious to hear about the wheel sizes on the new bike. I didn't read all 20 something pages, but it looks like it's got a 21" front (and the reports seem to confirm that), but I'm wondering if they are going to move to a 17" rear?

the new 800XC and the F800GS both have 21" fronts with a 17" rear. give you MANY more options for tires from what I've looked at. The SE can get away with the narrower 18" rear because you can throw on a 140/80-18 or a 120/100-18 rear, but the wider ADV is a lot more limited to what tires it'll fit...

more power IMHO is always good. but then again I ride a CBR1000rr on the street and have considered one of the new BMW S1krr's but that's just me.

Lighter would be MUCH better as well, but sometimes that's what the aftermarket is for. the exhaust manufacturers are going to have a hayday with this one. :)
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #388
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i'm curious to hear about the wheel sizes on the new bike. I didn't read all 20 something pages, but it looks like it's got a 21" front (and the reports seem to confirm that), but I'm wondering if they are going to move to a 17" rear?
21'' & 18'' according to this: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=229
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:06 PM   #389
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If the actual manifestation of the 1190 adventure proves to be more powerful (i sure could use 150hp on long hauls) and lighter than the 990 I don't get why you re against it...especially considering the fact that they will give you the option to reduce that monstrous power to 100hp for off roading....(I'm also very intrested to see how the front ABS-on read ABS-off will be in off roading...in theory it should be great)....]
You say "1190 adventure" but more precision is useful as that to me sounds like the street oriented bike, or did you mean the R?

No objection here to the 1190 adventure making 150hp. This seems to be the bike that KTM is trying to make to compete with all the bikes that keep winning the 95% pavement adventure shootouts. If you re-read I was referring to the 1190R version where I was wondering why they didn't opt for more of a distinction between the two offerings, say a 790R twin 410 pounds wet 90hp 21"/18" kind of deal.

I personally just can't see a lot of need for the R version to make that kind of hp.

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For the R. Non-R is 19" front. Not sure what the rear is, 18?
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #390
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I can't see how 150 is a reasonable street number
i dont know that the peak # is all that important for most. What matters to me is a better midrange and good fueling.
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