Honda CRF250L vs CRF230L - Page 2

Bulldogs2k · 08-31-2012, 06:49 PM

11k miles on my 230L's ODO. I would ride it on the HWY every day at 70 indicated* and i'm no light weight! I tell my self I would trade her in but every time I start her up, it fires up with no hesitation, and I fall in love with the machine all over again.

There is NOTHING like having a reliable, simple, motorcycle waiting in the wings, it's comforting to know you'll never be without a bike!

I also used to ride to the local enduro park where I would ride with the off road only bikes, it does just fine for my level of off road riding.

Peace and chain grease!

Ferdinand · 09-01-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damasovi

bullet proof? we are still very far from knowing this, I even ask the same thing from the 230L, how many miles are on people's bike already and what issues have they gotten? It was a very short live model, I think 2008 was the first year and 2009 the last.

The 230L motor has been proven many times over in some capacity over the last 30 years very similar to xr200 and other xr small motors. There are guys with 20,000 and even over 30,000 miles (with a photo) on the 230L forum with no issues. My buddy's got about 15k on his or I should say his wife's. Of course with any bike there will always be exceptions.

I just flogged mine for 1100 miles in 4 days with no issues at all. I rode some more later in the week and in the end about 1800 miles in ten days with longest day about 330 miles. Mix of mostly backroads mostly dirt, a little highway some singletrack, rocks etc too. Just under 5k total on mine.

Downstater · 09-09-2012, 12:35 PM

Kind of a silly comparison. For 500 less you get a much more capable machine out of the 250L. Period.

I own a 250L and have ridden a 230 L and F in the past year. The suspension is extremely weak and the motor feels like somebody yelled at it and it is cowering in a corner. I was not impressed at all and have felt te exact opposite when riding a 250L... Which Is why I plopped down my hard earned money on one. Solid machine. I have been riding Hondas for 20 years and know what to expect.

JerryH · 09-09-2012, 05:59 PM

I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer.

I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed.

The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose.

roundtripping · 09-09-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryH

I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer.

I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed.

The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose.

Did you happen to notice when you wrote your post that everything in it is based on ifs?

JerryH · 09-09-2012, 06:31 PM

Yes, most of it was, but when you ride like I do (alone, 50-100 miles back out into the AZ desert, sometimes on 2-3 day trips) you have to take everything you can into consideration. I was never a boy scout, but I do believe in their moto "be prepared" I trust my highly modified (4 gallon Clarke tank, Bryan Swens luggage rack, kickstarter, 4mm thick tubes, and Cigar Mike centerstand, just to name a few) XT225 to get me in and out, and it has yet to fail me. It uses old technology which is easy to work with, both on the trail and at home (you can replace the cam chain without taking the engine apart). And with the rack, I can carry plenty of spares and tools. With the centerstand I can fix a flat, even if there is nothing within miles to prop the bike up on. These new bikes just don't have those capabilities. At least the 230 has an air cooled engine, carb, and a rack available.

ramz · 09-09-2012, 06:44 PM

Are you sure you trust internal combustion engines? Less reliable than walking.

TNC · 09-09-2012, 07:48 PM

Wow, Jerry...I've been somewhat critical of the diminished suspension potential on the new Honda 250, but the reliability factor and the other modern aspects of the engine...including FI...are its shining homeruns...and its engine track record is present in the CBR. And to compare what is basically a 1970's engine design to the 250L, and then say the 230 is superior is somewhat amazing to me. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but your rationale here seems very unusual. I like stone age reliability as much as anyone, but I want my motorcycles to be a little newer than the stone age. My KLX does have a carb, but I would ride the FI model in just as remote spots in the western U.S. as I ride my carbed bike all by my little lonesome. As a four time Honda XR250R owner, I am personally aware of how long my water cooled engines have lasted without serious engine work over those XR's...and I really liked those XR's.

Jerry...it's 2012. There are much better motorcycles than that ancient 230L out there...and the Honda 250L is one of them. And speaking of Honda XR250R's, Honda should be absolutely ashamed to have ditched the XR250L and kept a motorcycle in the 230 that was basically 15 years older. Jerry...we've moved on from wooden wheels in case you haven't heard.

crypto666 · 09-09-2012, 09:24 PM

Forget the showroom floor models, what about decorking? I know the 230 can benefit from some decorking, making it much more capable. What about the 250?

Anyone seen that 250 4c motor from honda thats putting out something like 55hp? Probably not the same motor here, but...

Downstater · 09-10-2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryH

I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer.

I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed.

The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose.

Man I wish I could get back te 5 minutes I just wasted reading that. As others have said your entitled to your own opinion but IMO your opinion is complete rubbish. To call the 230 a "superior" bike to the 250L is like calling a Datsun pickup superior to a ford super duty. FI is extremely reliable and in case you havnt noticed, many high end mx and dual sport bikes now feature it standard. There is a reason for that... Actually a couple. Nevertheless, it seems as though you are fairly concrete in your beliefs of outdated technology being superior to modern tech, so I'll shut up.

byron555 · 09-10-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryH

I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer.

I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed.

The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose.

While I will agree that the 230L is simple and will run for a long time... Good bike too... Fuel Injection (FI) is fantastic... The WRr starts easy, always, I found out (through ADV) how to program the stock FI... No jets, no parts, just a jumper wire. So far as electronics go, CDI's are the ignition version of FI, both increase power and fuel economy. Liquid cool vs air... well I bought the brace/guard for my radiator immediately. First mod. Going down is a given. If you go off-road, it WILL happen. no matter what, the bike could crack a side cover and leak out all of the oil. I am not against air cool, carb bikes. But I went from an xr650L to the WRr, lost 400cc, and what felt like 150lbs, could not be happier... In every way.... Love FI, Water Cool, and CDI

strongbad · 09-10-2012, 08:29 AM

The 250L has a 50 lb weight disadvantage compared to the 230L and that's a huge disadvantage off road. The 230L makes about 14.5 rwhp compared to about 18 rwhp for the 250L, so the hp/lb of the two is not that much different. The 250L, no doubt, is the superior road bike--but we get no factory supermoto version from Honda.

Yet we do get a supermoto version of the 230L.

TNC · 09-10-2012, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongbad

The 250L has a 50 lb weight disadvantage compared to the 230L and that's a huge disadvantage off road. The 230L makes about 14.5 rwhp compared to about 18 rwhp for the 250L, so the hp/lb of the two is not that much different. The 250L, no doubt, is the superior road bike--but we get no factory supermoto version from Honda.

Yet we do get a supermoto version of the 230L.

Strictly speculation on my part, but I think the 230 will disappear completely, probably by the next model lineup. I'd bet the only reason it's still around is some kind of manufacturing lag, warehouse stock, or some kind of contract for 230's that was already in the pipeline. No inside info, just a WAG.

ADVNCW · 09-10-2012, 09:32 AM

My 230L serves basically as one step above my "trials bike" 200 Reflex as exremely capable on narrow and gnarly, 18 inch singletrack switchbacks that the bigger nice dirtbikes are challenging. As well, with my mods I can travel gravel road routes comfortably as well in the past few weeks rode 1000 miles on 60 MPH highway quite comfortably.And the 3000 miles of dirt riding this summer is so easy. On the WABDR I just flew with the little bike on FS roads, no worries- one does not need 13 inches of suspension for that, or at all if one is not racing or generally being crazy or lazy when riding.

Different power characteristics suit specific purposes. Light is right, and the 230L is really the only inexpensive, 1/4 L class up dual sport with a low maintenence long-distance engine that is under 300 lbs. After riding my home gnarly FS trails I sold an IT 490 that could not be opened up on those tight trails and was a pain on so many switchbacks, and I went to the 200 Reflex; I rode with ease to places that I did not take the IT 490 with the 200 Reflex, and now with the 230L.

I rode 44 states and the AK Hwy (gravel then-with street tires) on a two-stroke GT750 (that thing would wheelie), had a Husky CR360GP that had a powerband like a 125, my IT490- superior on whoops, jumps, speed inferior in my home mountains, etc. Different bikes for different uses, the more specialized for one purpose the more issues in general.

Chest-beating unformed opinions are missing the points.

CRF250L is a better road bike. The liquid cooled engine and FI is great. Weight is more important to me, even though I am a big guy and riding since 1970 with 4 inch-travel suspension, then upgrading ultimately to 13 inch suspension and now backing down for current use! The 250L is ridiculously heavy- heavier than a DR400! If the 250L was say 280 lbs I would probably grab one and fix it up fot the CD and other gravel tours!

CRF230L is not as good on street, fast open dirt riding, etc, it is small, but that is a different type of machine, not necessarily inferior.

montesa_vr · 09-10-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryH

IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

Sounds like a good argument for buying a Yamaha XT250.

09-09-2012, 05:59 PM	#19
JerryH Vintage Rider Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ Oddometer: 1,680	I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it. About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer. I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed. The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose. __________________ "I refuse to give up the thrill of living for the relative safety of existing" Nick Ienatsch "Life is not a race. Don't treat it as such. If you don't believe me, just have a look at the finish line"

09-09-2012, 06:31 PM	#21
JerryH Vintage Rider Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ Oddometer: 1,680	Yes, most of it was, but when you ride like I do (alone, 50-100 miles back out into the AZ desert, sometimes on 2-3 day trips) you have to take everything you can into consideration. I was never a boy scout, but I do believe in their moto "be prepared" I trust my highly modified (4 gallon Clarke tank, Bryan Swens luggage rack, kickstarter, 4mm thick tubes, and Cigar Mike centerstand, just to name a few) XT225 to get me in and out, and it has yet to fail me. It uses old technology which is easy to work with, both on the trail and at home (you can replace the cam chain without taking the engine apart). And with the rack, I can carry plenty of spares and tools. With the centerstand I can fix a flat, even if there is nothing within miles to prop the bike up on. These new bikes just don't have those capabilities. At least the 230 has an air cooled engine, carb, and a rack available. __________________ "I refuse to give up the thrill of living for the relative safety of existing" Nick Ienatsch "Life is not a race. Don't treat it as such. If you don't believe me, just have a look at the finish line"

09-10-2012, 09:32 AM	#29
ADVNCW Banned Joined: May 2012 Location: Leavenworth, WA- in the mountains! Oddometer: 341	Right tool for the job My 230L serves basically as one step above my "trials bike" 200 Reflex as exremely capable on narrow and gnarly, 18 inch singletrack switchbacks that the bigger nice dirtbikes are challenging. As well, with my mods I can travel gravel road routes comfortably as well in the past few weeks rode 1000 miles on 60 MPH highway quite comfortably.And the 3000 miles of dirt riding this summer is so easy. On the WABDR I just flew with the little bike on FS roads, no worries- one does not need 13 inches of suspension for that, or at all if one is not racing or generally being crazy or lazy when riding. Different power characteristics suit specific purposes. Light is right, and the 230L is really the only inexpensive, 1/4 L class up dual sport with a low maintenence long-distance engine that is under 300 lbs. After riding my home gnarly FS trails I sold an IT 490 that could not be opened up on those tight trails and was a pain on so many switchbacks, and I went to the 200 Reflex; I rode with ease to places that I did not take the IT 490 with the 200 Reflex, and now with the 230L. I rode 44 states and the AK Hwy (gravel then-with street tires) on a two-stroke GT750 (that thing would wheelie), had a Husky CR360GP that had a powerband like a 125, my IT490- superior on whoops, jumps, speed inferior in my home mountains, etc. Different bikes for different uses, the more specialized for one purpose the more issues in general. Chest-beating unformed opinions are missing the points. CRF250L is a better road bike. The liquid cooled engine and FI is great. Weight is more important to me, even though I am a big guy and riding since 1970 with 4 inch-travel suspension, then upgrading ultimately to 13 inch suspension and now backing down for current use! The 250L is ridiculously heavy- heavier than a DR400! If the 250L was say 280 lbs I would probably grab one and fix it up fot the CD and other gravel tours! CRF230L is not as good on street, fast open dirt riding, etc, it is small, but that is a different type of machine, not necessarily inferior. ADVNCW screwed with this post 09-10-2012 at 10:02 AM

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08-31-2012, 06:49 PM	#16
Bulldogs2k Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2007 Oddometer: 294	11k miles on my 230L's ODO. I would ride it on the HWY every day at 70 indicated* and i'm no light weight! I tell my self I would trade her in but every time I start her up, it fires up with no hesitation, and I fall in love with the machine all over again. There is NOTHING like having a reliable, simple, motorcycle waiting in the wings, it's comforting to know you'll never be without a bike! I also used to ride to the local enduro park where I would ride with the off road only bikes, it does just fine for my level of off road riding. Peace and chain grease!

09-09-2012, 12:35 PM	#18
Downstater Adventurer Joined: Aug 2012 Location: Eastern PA Oddometer: 70	Kind of a silly comparison. For 500 less you get a much more capable machine out of the 250L. Period. I own a 250L and have ridden a 230 L and F in the past year. The suspension is extremely weak and the motor feels like somebody yelled at it and it is cowering in a corner. I was not impressed at all and have felt te exact opposite when riding a 250L... Which Is why I plopped down my hard earned money on one. Solid machine. I have been riding Hondas for 20 years and know what to expect.

09-09-2012, 06:44 PM	#22
ramz Professional Trail Rider Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Salida, CO Oddometer: 1,724	Are you sure you trust internal combustion engines? Less reliable than walking.

09-09-2012, 07:48 PM	#23
TNC Candyass Camper Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Tejas Oddometer: 3,337	Wow, Jerry...I've been somewhat critical of the diminished suspension potential on the new Honda 250, but the reliability factor and the other modern aspects of the engine...including FI...are its shining homeruns...and its engine track record is present in the CBR. And to compare what is basically a 1970's engine design to the 250L, and then say the 230 is superior is somewhat amazing to me. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but your rationale here seems very unusual. I like stone age reliability as much as anyone, but I want my motorcycles to be a little newer than the stone age. My KLX does have a carb, but I would ride the FI model in just as remote spots in the western U.S. as I ride my carbed bike all by my little lonesome. As a four time Honda XR250R owner, I am personally aware of how long my water cooled engines have lasted without serious engine work over those XR's...and I really liked those XR's. Jerry...it's 2012. There are much better motorcycles than that ancient 230L out there...and the Honda 250L is one of them. And speaking of Honda XR250R's, Honda should be absolutely ashamed to have ditched the XR250L and kept a motorcycle in the 230 that was basically 15 years older. Jerry...we've moved on from wooden wheels in case you haven't heard.

09-09-2012, 09:24 PM	#24
crypto666 Studly Adventurer Joined: May 2011 Location: Barclay, Nevada Oddometer: 609	Forget the showroom floor models, what about decorking? I know the 230 can benefit from some decorking, making it much more capable. What about the 250? Anyone seen that 250 4c motor from honda thats putting out something like 55hp? Probably not the same motor here, but...

09-10-2012, 08:29 AM	#27
strongbad Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Arroyo Grande, CA Oddometer: 429	The 250L has a 50 lb weight disadvantage compared to the 230L and that's a huge disadvantage off road. The 230L makes about 14.5 rwhp compared to about 18 rwhp for the 250L, so the hp/lb of the two is not that much different. The 250L, no doubt, is the superior road bike--but we get no factory supermoto version from Honda. Yet we do get a supermoto version of the 230L.