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Old 09-18-2012, 08:47 AM   #511
Sniff
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Sprint?

+1 on the VFR comments and the 'sweet spot' engine size.

I'm looking at a Sprint as an alternative, I realize it's got more cc's and is heavier, but it somehow feels smaller than the C14/RT/etc. I had an RT and it felt too...big? Subjective, I know...

My brother has his FZ6 set up pretty nice, but coming off a Bandit1250, I'd like something a little bigger than a 600, and with more wx protection...
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:54 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniff View Post
+1 on the VFR comments and the 'sweet spot' engine size.

I'm looking at a Sprint as an alternative, I realize it's got more cc's and is heavier, but it somehow feels smaller than the C14/RT/etc. I had an RT and it felt too...big? Subjective, I know...

My brother has his FZ6 set up pretty nice, but coming off a Bandit1250, I'd like something a little bigger than a 600, and with more wx protection...
Sounds like the Sprint could be an excellent choice.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #513
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If I was shopping right now I'd definitely test ride a Sprint. I spent a day on a Speed Triple recently and LOVED the motor.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:06 PM   #514
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Sprint GT vs the new VFR. While I really like the looks of the new GT, I am wondering, for those considering it, why not the new VFR? Aside from its polarizing looks and higher price tag, seems to be getting great reviews.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:20 PM   #515
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Bmw f800s



So far this one fits the bill for me while I hold my breath waiting for Ducati to come out with a new ST......The little 800 Beemer in the Sport version ticks most of the boxes for me. Its all day comfy for weekend or light extended touring duty, light weight (relative) and has enough go go to get all the tickets you want + has some of the modern techno wizardry such as ABS, Gear Position Indicator, TPS etc. and the belt drive is a nice compromise between shafty or chain. I know some would argue the ST is a bit better at ST work however I am not a big fan of the looks on the ST and although looks are subjective it is a consideration for me when buying a motorcycle when I can only have one anyway. I currently have the MV risers on it now and a Sergeant Seat, Vario Windscreen and those have made a big difference. Since this model was only brought to the US for one season I think it gets overlooked. I know I overlooked it for years personally......

However I have found the best solution to this problem is an unlimited budget though then I could have six motorcycles......
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
I like the idea of the Beemer but I do my own work and I'm put off by the Beemers mechanical complexity.
Don't know where that idea comes from. If you are really doing your own work on your WeeStrom then the F800ST will be less complex. The VFR800 is an order of magnitude more complex again

Oil & filter changes.

DL650 F800 & VFR have spin off oil filters, wet clutches with common engine & gearbox lubricant - one bolt drain/one point fill. VFR needs more plastic removed than others for access.
All 3 bikes have paper a single paper element air filter in airbox... f800 easier access than VFR & DL650 as fuel tank does not need to be removed.

Final drive.
DL650. O-ring chain. Needs periodic adjustment with wheel alignment, cleaning & lubrication. Replacement of chain & sprockets every 20 to 40k Km
VFR. O-ring chain. Needs periodic adjustment, cleaning & lubrication. SS swingarm negates need for alignment adjustment Replacement of chain & sprockets every 20 to 30k km ( heavier bike possibly more chain wear than DL650)
F800ST. Belt drive. No periodic adjustment, cleaning & lubrication. SS swingarm negates need for alignment adjustment. Replacement of belt every 40 to 60k km. Belts about 40 to 50% more expensive than a quality chain & sprocket kit. If you own a chainbreaker & do your own chain replacement then chain cheaper. If you do not do your own chain replacement then the labour costs make chains considerably more expensive.

Valve adjustments

F800. Parallel Twin. Single head with 4 valves per cylinder with one inlet & one exhaust cam. Bucket over shim adjustment. Clearance checked with cams in situ. Cams removed to change shims to adjust clearance if necessary. Check every 20,000km

DL650 V-Twin. Two heads each with two camshafts. 4 cams in total with 8 valves in total plus 2 camchains. Bucket over shim adjustment. Clearance checked with cams in situ. Cams removed to change shims to adjust clearance if necessary. More than twice as complex as F800. Check every 24,000km

VFR800 V-Four. 2 heads each with 2 cylinders & 4 valves per cylinder. total 16 valves ( 8 vtec, 8 bucket over shim).

Checking procedure. Remove all four camshafts, install special part locking pins in Vtec followers. Install all 4 camshafts, measure clearances (note results). If no clearances need adjusting remove all 4 camshafts, remove locking pins on vtec followers and replace all four camshafts.

If non vtec valves need adjustment replace shims under buckets like DL650 or F800. If vtec valves need adjustment the whole bucket needs to be swapped out.. $$$. then replace cams, check that adjustment correct, remove cams to remove locking pins, replace cams once again & button it all up... Check interval 24000km.

All 3 bikes use solid state ignition & fuel injection. However Honda use unique FI system unlike Suzuki & BMW that use common Bosch components.

Sum up. For the true home mechanic the BMW is the most simple & cheapest. BMW dealers have a reputation for high prices however so if "I do my own work" is a flexible concept the Suzuki may match the BMW for service costs. The VFR is on another planet & most owners just ignore valve checks altogether.....
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:54 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post



Fab bike.. yes

Sport tourer... no

Full size touring bike... yes. Thats why BMW call it an "RT" not "ST"
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:21 PM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFH View Post
Fab bike.. yes

Sport tourer... no

Full size touring bike... yes. Thats why BMW call it an "RT" not "ST"
Full size touring bike...no! It's not long enough or heavy enough to match up to the real touring bikes. Size matters...and this bike is short and barely 500lbs.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:52 PM   #519
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I used to kick around the idea of turning the sv650s into a sports tourer. Kinda like a bandit-lite. With a lot better mpg.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #520
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2004 CB 919... Givi bags and trunk, SW Motec mounts, Renthal low rise bars, complete CBR 900 exhaust, GPS mount, Powered tank bag, SS brake lines,12v outlets, and shiny new paint :-)

Since these pics I have added obnoxiously bright LED's to the back of the bags, solas tape, stomp grips, agri tubes + MSR fuel bottles,and dropped a tooth off the rear sprocket. Also took off the Givi red pinstripe and replaced it with 3M reflective orange. Next up, hand guards and rebuild the front forks. Going to have the rack for the bags welded and braced since it has a little bit of wiggle when loaded.







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Old 09-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFH View Post
Don't know where that idea comes from. If you are really doing your own work on your WeeStrom then the F800ST will be less complex. The VFR800 is an order of magnitude more complex again

Oil & filter changes.

DL650 F800 & VFR have spin off oil filters, wet clutches with common engine & gearbox lubricant - one bolt drain/one point fill. VFR needs more plastic removed than others for access.
All 3 bikes have paper a single paper element air filter in airbox... f800 easier access than VFR & DL650 as fuel tank does not need to be removed.

Final drive.
DL650. O-ring chain. Needs periodic adjustment with wheel alignment, cleaning & lubrication. Replacement of chain & sprockets every 20 to 40k Km
VFR. O-ring chain. Needs periodic adjustment, cleaning & lubrication. SS swingarm negates need for alignment adjustment Replacement of chain & sprockets every 20 to 30k km ( heavier bike possibly more chain wear than DL650)
F800ST. Belt drive. No periodic adjustment, cleaning & lubrication. SS swingarm negates need for alignment adjustment. Replacement of belt every 40 to 60k km. Belts about 40 to 50% more expensive than a quality chain & sprocket kit. If you own a chainbreaker & do your own chain replacement then chain cheaper. If you do not do your own chain replacement then the labour costs make chains considerably more expensive.

Valve adjustments

F800. Parallel Twin. Single head with 4 valves per cylinder with one inlet & one exhaust cam. Bucket over shim adjustment. Clearance checked with cams in situ. Cams removed to change shims to adjust clearance if necessary. Check every 20,000km

DL650 V-Twin. Two heads each with two camshafts. 4 cams in total with 8 valves in total plus 2 camchains. Bucket over shim adjustment. Clearance checked with cams in situ. Cams removed to change shims to adjust clearance if necessary. More than twice as complex as F800. Check every 24,000km

VFR800 V-Four. 2 heads each with 2 cylinders & 4 valves per cylinder. total 16 valves ( 8 vtec, 8 bucket over shim).

Checking procedure. Remove all four camshafts, install special part locking pins in Vtec followers. Install all 4 camshafts, measure clearances (note results). If no clearances need adjusting remove all 4 camshafts, remove locking pins on vtec followers and replace all four camshafts.

If non vtec valves need adjustment replace shims under buckets like DL650 or F800. If vtec valves need adjustment the whole bucket needs to be swapped out.. $$$. then replace cams, check that adjustment correct, remove cams to remove locking pins, replace cams once again & button it all up... Check interval 24000km.

All 3 bikes use solid state ignition & fuel injection. However Honda use unique FI system unlike Suzuki & BMW that use common Bosch components.

Sum up. For the true home mechanic the BMW is the most simple & cheapest. BMW dealers have a reputation for high prices however so if "I do my own work" is a flexible concept the Suzuki may match the BMW for service costs. The VFR is on another planet & most owners just ignore valve checks altogether.....

I ride with a bunch of GS owners. I'll have to show this post to them. Both of these guys are always joking that BMW stands for bring more wrenches.

As for doing my own work I'm definitely not a mechanic but have kept all my bikes running for the past 15 years without a trip to the dealership other than getting tires mounted. Although that may change this year if santa brings me one of those cheap harbor freight tire balancers.

As I've never owned a BMW i can only base my opinion on what other BMW owners have shared with me.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:13 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloADV View Post
Full size touring bike...no! It's not long enough or heavy enough to match up to the real touring bikes. Size matters...and this bike is short and barely 500lbs.


I'll assume your tongue is firmly in your cheek....
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:38 PM   #523
DFH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
I ride with a bunch of GS owners. I'll have to show this post to them. Both of these guys are always joking that BMW stands for bring more wrenches.

As for doing my own work I'm definitely not a mechanic but have kept all my bikes running for the past 15 years without a trip to the dealership other than getting tires mounted. Although that may change this year if santa brings me one of those cheap harbor freight tire balancers.

As I've never owned a BMW i can only base my opinion on what other BMW owners have shared with me.
By GS owners you mean R1200GS? (The F800GS as far as servicing goes is like a F800ST but with chain drive)

The R series flat twin is even easier to service than the F800. The current "hexhead" flat twins have screw & locknut adjusters for valve clearances, a rarity on modern bikes. Easy-peasy. Look here:
HTML Code:
http://www.r1200gs.info/howto/valve-adj.html
The gearbox & final drive have their own lubricants, so its 3 seperate oils to drain & fill. The only only other thing on R series BMW's is to replace the alternator belt when required... not much fun. Anybody with an R series that takes it to the dealer for regular service needs a kick up the fundamental. The only thing I would possibly leave to the dealer is a brake fluid replacement with the R series linked & powered ABS... not a regular job however.

Cheers
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:07 AM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFH View Post
Fab bike.. yes

Sport tourer... no

Full size touring bike... yes. Thats why BMW call it an "RT" not "ST"
Have you spent any time on an RT ?
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:16 AM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFH View Post
Fab bike.. yes

Sport tourer... no

Full size touring bike... yes. Thats why BMW call it an "RT" not "ST"

OK... I won't tell my RT that it is not sporty...


"Full size" touring bike it is not. Several of my buddies have either Wings or Ultras, all of which are at least 300 pounds heavier and cannot keep up with me in twisties. By the way... the RT has a better useful load than the Goldwing and a goodly number of the HD's !

And I suspect the crotch rocket drivers that I stay with or pass with all the luggage on might also suspect it is a "sport" tourer... After they get over the shock
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