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Old 09-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #69316
Mongle
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Location: North Carolina Y'all
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystoke View Post
Hi guys.

I've put my carb back together after giving a thorough clean, changed all the o-rings and replaced the idle jet with a stocker (42.5). Stock needle not worn and on 3rd clip (stock setting I believe) The stock needle isn't adjustable- you have something else.. Fuel screw turned 2 1/4 turns Should be close. No airbox mods. As far as I can tell it's as Suzuki wanted it. Managed to get her fired up with some coaxing but it won't idle. Revs just drop and putt-putt-ptuh . If I hold the throttle the tiniest bit it'll keep going. It won't start with the choke on at all and if I put it on after starting it makes no difference to revs.

But!!! If I cover 3/4 of the snorkel with my hand it will idle. Sounds like it wants more fuel for sure. The DR doesn't like to idle below 1300 (stock setting is 1500) so make sure you have the idle screw/rpm correct (like Feelers said) before adjusting the idle mixture screw. If after all that nothing changes...time to take it back off. The pilot jet might have something in it, float level might be wrong, or an air bleed is plugged.

I'm not a mechanic but to me this sounds like it's running too lean? (too much air?). I can raise the needle and keep turning the mixture screw but to me from what i've read this setup 'should' run and i'm wondering whether there's something else wrong.

There's no fuel coming out the overflow (as it has in the past) and if I turn the drain screw fuel comes out so the float bowl appears to be filling and shutting off correctly. The rubber tipped float needle looked fine and was thoroughly cleaned. If the float wasn't set correctly not allowing enough fuel in i'd guess that the problem would be more stop-start than affecting idle. Because there isn't much vacuum at idle fuel level makes a big diffrence in how it pulls the fuel in. Once you crack the throttles open you are not using the idle circuit as much and are moving onto the needle.

Am I looking at the problem wrong?
Good luck! Carb problems suck!
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #69317
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Originally Posted by greystoke
Hi guys.

I've put my carb back together after giving a thorough clean, changed all the o-rings and replaced the idle jet with a stocker (42.5). Stock needle not worn and on 3rd clip (stock setting I believe) The stock needle isn't adjustable- you have something else.. Fuel screw turned 2 1/4 turns Should be close. No airbox mods. As far as I can tell it's as Suzuki wanted it. Managed to get her fired up with some coaxing but it won't idle. Revs just drop and putt-putt-ptuh . If I hold the throttle the tiniest bit it'll keep going. It won't start with the choke on at all and if I put it on after starting it makes no difference to revs.

But!!! If I cover 3/4 of the snorkel with my hand it will idle. Sounds like it wants more fuel for sure. The DR doesn't like to idle below 1300 (stock setting is 1500) so make sure you have the idle screw/rpm correct (like Feelers said) before adjusting the idle mixture screw. If after all that nothing changes...time to take it back off. The pilot jet might have something in it, float level might be wrong, or an air bleed is plugged.

I'm not a mechanic but to me this sounds like it's running too lean? (too much air?). I can raise the needle and keep turning the mixture screw but to me from what i've read this setup 'should' run and i'm wondering whether there's something else wrong.

There's no fuel coming out the overflow (as it has in the past) and if I turn the drain screw fuel comes out so the float bowl appears to be filling and shutting off correctly. The rubber tipped float needle looked fine and was thoroughly cleaned. If the float wasn't set correctly not allowing enough fuel in i'd guess that the problem would be more stop-start than affecting idle. Because there isn't much vacuum at idle fuel level makes a big diffrence in how it pulls the fuel in. Once you crack the throttles open you are not using the idle circuit as much and are moving onto the needle.

Am I looking at the problem wrong?

Good luck! Carb problems suck!
1. The OP is in Oz ... DR650's come stock with an adjustable needle there.

2. 2. 5 turns out seems very rich to me. Should be more like 1 to 1.5 turns
if everything else is right.

3. I'd bet Pilot Jet is clogged. Pull it out and clean it and flush out the circuit below the jet too.

4. Make sure no crud below float needle.

Good luck!
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #69318
Mongle
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Location: North Carolina Y'all
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What the heck...why do they get adjustable needles?! I have my idle mixture screw at about 1 3/4 and it runs good; figured another half turn wouldn't make it not run. Mine actually idled better at 2 but had rich bog right off idle. It is a give and take with the damn things...
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:05 PM   #69319
FlowBee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
What the heck...why do they get adjustable needles?! .
The real question is "Why are ours not adjustable?" and "Why is there a stupid aluminum blanking plate over our idle mixture screws?" This is the US EPA's approach. Assume we're stupid, then look the other way.

I applaud reducing pollution, but the EPA's approach is .... and nanny state bureacracy.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #69320
greystoke
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Location: Brisneyland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsk99 View Post
Have you checked for vacuum leaks? If you just had the carb off its a possibility. It's hard to do the WD-40 spray test since the bike is not holding idle. So, I'd start by making sure you have a good seal on the boots and that they are tightened down. Also, check to see that the choke cable is set properly and that the black, plastic housing is screwed on correctly.

Perhaps one of the carb guru inmates can give you better direction than I, but just some food for thought.
Will def recheck carb boots. Was a bitch to get it back in. Maybe I futzed the fit. Thanks
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:24 PM   #69321
greystoke
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Location: Brisneyland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
Greystroke,

It sounds like you simply need to adjust your idle screw. The idle screw is also the throttle stop screw which will essentially hold your throttle open slightly. It actually sounds like your throttle is too closed at idle - which is decreasing the airflow which is decreasing the vacuum which is decreasing fuel flow. That's why blocking the snorkel might be helping. Is 2 1/4 turns normal for the fuel screw? I thought it was more like 1 1/2 turns....
The throttle stop as I see is the big screw on the left of the carb? It's just a mechanical screw that prevents the throttle from closing completely isn't it? I tightened that one all the way up but the little bit that sticks up only extends about 5mm. Not enough to affect the idle. I can extend the main housing but this still seems like a hack and not the root cause.

Will try reducing the turns. I was working from the BST Bible which says 2'ish but they're using the KTM needle.

Thanks!
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #69322
805gregg
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
Oddometer: 1,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
I need to stop trying to talk myself into a lesser bike and just find a way to make an 800XC happen. I got to ride one about a year ago when the demo truck came through Newport Beach (when I was in SoCal). Was really nice. Though there's a good deal on an 07 DL1000 up in Portland that I'd love to snag if I had $5k. Has luggage and everything.

My rear 705 is just about shot.. I have a new one in the garage I need to swap on. Might do that tomorrow. That and check all my motor mounts to try to figure out that weird vibration. I also wonder if the cam chain tensioner might not be doing it's job, since it's the automatic (stock) one.

Rob

Weight is your enemy off road, why not put a 790 kit on a DR and have a light weight powerfull bike $680, that's what I plan.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:41 PM   #69323
805gregg
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Location: Ojai, Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Well, in all fairness the XR650L is pretty comparable, and my 690 does both MUCH BETTER. But, I do like my DR for what it is.
Except put any weight on the XR and the subframe fails, and the 690, bad vibrations, and anyone like lots of and hard maintance? Get a DR and put a 790 kit it, it will blow the rest away.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #69324
805gregg
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
ProCycle will pay $100 for it (or $150 store credit).
It's a good shock just upgrade it. I put a $900 Wilbers with all the options on my DL1000 it lasted like 3500 miles, F expensive shocks unless you are rich or you race.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #69325
greystoke
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Location: Brisneyland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
1. The OP is in Oz ... DR650's come stock with an adjustable needle there.

2. 2. 5 turns out seems very rich to me. Should be more like 1 to 1.5 turns
if everything else is right.

3. I'd bet Pilot Jet is clogged. Pull it out and clean it and flush out the circuit below the jet too.

4. Make sure no crud below float needle.

Good luck!
Yeah forgot to mention i'm in Oz where we can be trusted with needles

I'll double check the jets but cleaned each one by hand and each hole with tiny dental brushes (work a treat) and pretty sure each one was sparkley before it went back in.

The circuit however may be something to look at. As I don't have a ultrasonic cleaner setup any tips on getting into the circuit to clean things out?

Float needle is spotless.

Quote:
There's no fuel coming out the overflow (as it has in the past) and if I turn the drain screw fuel comes out so the float bowl appears to be filling and shutting off correctly. The rubber tipped float needle looked fine and was thoroughly cleaned. If the float wasn't set correctly not allowing enough fuel in i'd guess that the problem would be more stop-start than affecting idle. Because there isn't much vacuum at idle fuel level makes a big diffrence in how it pulls the fuel in. Once you crack the throttles open you are not using the idle circuit as much and are moving onto the needle.
By blocking the air intake (causing it to idle correctly) wouldn't that reduce the vacuum as well? With no throttle and blocking the snorkel it comes good by itself which to me seems like it would be getting enough fuel via idle. Very odd.

But if it's getting too much air I would have thought adding choke would improve the fuel air ratio making it run closer to correct. Currently it seems to make no difference except prevent it from starting.

These things seriously work by voodoo. After checking air leaks and reducing fuel air mix i'm buying a chicken just to be sure...
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:05 PM   #69326
Feelers
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Location: Northeast Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystoke View Post
The throttle stop as I see is the big screw on the left of the carb? It's just a mechanical screw that prevents the throttle from closing completely isn't it? I tightened that one all the way up but the little bit that sticks up only extends about 5mm. Not enough to affect the idle. I can extend the main housing but this still seems like a hack and not the root cause.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by greystoke View Post

These things seriously work by voodoo. After checking air leaks and reducing fuel air mix i'm buying a chicken just to be sure...
Greystoke,
Carbs aren't voodoo. I promise! Your throttle stop screw is your exact problem. Yes, it is just a simple mechanical screw - probably the simplest thing on the carb. You say that yours extends 5mm and does not affect idle. Ding ding ding! Your idle screw SHOULD BE affecting your idle!!! FWIW, my idle screw extends out almost exactly 1 centimeter and my bike idles and runs quite well. It has some room to extend further too, if necessary.
Don't overlook the simple stuff when dealing with carbs!
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #69327
ER70S-2
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Location: SE Denver-ish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystoke View Post
The throttle stop as I see is the big screw on the left of the carb? It's just a mechanical screw that prevents the throttle from closing completely isn't it? I tightened that one all the way up but the little bit that sticks up only extends about 5mm. Not enough to affect the idle. I can extend the main housing but this still seems like a hack and not the root cause.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by greystoke View Post
I'll double check the jets but cleaned each one by hand and each hole with tiny dental brushes (work a treat) and pretty sure each one was sparkley before it went back in.
Be sure to stick something thru the pilot jet when you're in there. It's a very small hole, pics below.

The circuit however may be something to look at. As I don't have a ultrasonic cleaner setup any tips on getting into the circuit to clean things out?
Brake or carb cleaner squirted thru the passages will work; wear your safety glasses. One of them kills rubber pieces IIRC

These things seriously work by voodoo. After checking air leaks and reducing fuel air mix........
Starter fluid squirted around the carb while running will raise rpm if there's a leak. It isn't good for piston walls and things, so don't go overboard.
Pilot jet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
Greystoke,
Carbs aren't voodoo. I promise! Your throttle stop screw is your exact problem. Yes, it is just a simple mechanical screw - probably the simplest thing on the carb. You say that yours extends 5mm and does not affect idle. Ding ding ding! Your idle screw SHOULD BE affecting your idle!!! FWIW, my idle screw extends out almost exactly 1 centimeter and my bike idles and runs quite well. It has some room to extend further too, if necessary.
Don't overlook the simple stuff when dealing with carbs!
A simple check, stick a coin (or more) in here to see if it helps.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:10 AM   #69328
Sammalamma
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Location: Driftin'
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Travel Tools

I briefly searched the forum and google for this with no success, so here it goes:

I just recently purchased a DR650 down in Orlando, FL. I will be doing a fly and ride to bring it home to Southern Wisconsin next weekend. I hope I won't need any tools for my trip home, but I tend to not leave the house with some kind of tool set to help me get through a bind. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of 1-on-1 time with a DR650 before buying this one so I'm not very familiar with the "tools you don't leave home without." Obviously I'm aware of the basic 10mm wrench and socket, but to help me out... what tools do all of you never leave home without?

Thanks!
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:27 AM   #69329
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammalamma View Post
I briefly searched the forum and google for this with no success, so here it goes:

I just recently purchased a DR650 down in Orlando, FL. I will be doing a fly and ride to bring it home to Southern Wisconsin next weekend. I hope I won't need any tools for my trip home, but I tend to not leave the house with some kind of tool set to help me get through a bind. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of 1-on-1 time with a DR650 before buying this one so I'm not very familiar with the "tools you don't leave home without." Obviously I'm aware of the basic 10mm wrench and socket, but to help me out... what tools do all of you never leave home without?

Thanks!
Among the standard pliers and screwdrivers, I carry tire repair stuff. I have a small bicycle pump, tire Irons and a patch kit. Also on my front fender in a tool bag made for that spot I carry a 21" tube and a small set of jumper cables that came from Aerostitch. The DR is the first and only bike I ever owned that doesn't have a kickstarter. Scares me to death. I've never needed them for myself, but have helped several others. (how old is the battery on this bike you are buying?)
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:44 AM   #69330
Emmbeedee
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Location: Near Ottawa, ON, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammalamma View Post
I briefly searched the forum and google for this with no success, so here it goes:

I just recently purchased a DR650 down in Orlando, FL. I will be doing a fly and ride to bring it home to Southern Wisconsin next weekend. I hope I won't need any tools for my trip home, but I tend to not leave the house with some kind of tool set to help me get through a bind. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of 1-on-1 time with a DR650 before buying this one so I'm not very familiar with the "tools you don't leave home without." Obviously I'm aware of the basic 10mm wrench and socket, but to help me out... what tools do all of you never leave home without?

Thanks!
Did you know the DR has a fairly complete tool kit already? You need tire irons, spare tubes and a pump as well, though. And an adjustable wench.
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