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Old 08-07-2012, 11:25 PM   #106
Anywhereness
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Sorry to dig up and old thread, but I wanted to add a bit of information here from a recent experience with my 2001 640E.

So I woke up and tried to start the bike, but the battery was dead. No magic button, no headlights, no neutral light even. The heated grips switch was left on "high" from the night before and sat overnight and through the morning.

Deciding to try and take this as a learning experience, I did all that was immediately available to try and start the bike with a completely dead battery and no outside help. Note not just weak battery, or "my headlights are dim" dead, but completely drained. I multimeter would have read 0 output.
  1. Unplugged the headlight (easy on the E) and tried to kick start the bike (repeatedly), no love.
  2. Pushed the bike down the best incline I could find to try and bump start it a few times, no love.
  3. Went back to kick starting, again and and again and again and again and... no love.
  4. Gave up and put the bike on a charger for a few hours, started right up.


A few days later, I made the same dumb mistake and left the heated grips on (man I need a relay!) while eating breakfast at a diner. The battery was dead enough where the magic button wouldn't work but the headlights and neutral switch were dim and dying.
  1. Went to kick start the bike a few times, no love.
  2. Reached down and unplugged the headlight then gave it a good kick, right on the first kick.


The Conclusion:
I don't think that this bike will start with a completely drained battery, it needs SOME sort of juice to get the ignition system motivated. The trick to know now is how could one add juice to a dead battery out in the middle of noplace with no reliable outside help?

Will the charge system work if the bike is rolling downhill in the ON position but in neutral?

Can I put it into 5th gear with the spark plug out and spin the rear wheel some? (or all afternoon?)

Would anyone be willing to sacrifice their battery in the name of science?
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:46 AM   #107
StevenD
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your drained battery will take many amps. I bet if you disconnected the battery all together with the head light, and turned the heater off you would have kicked the bike succesfully as well.

Try it: just uplug the battery tonight and kick it over!
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #108
Luke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD View Post
your drained battery will take many amps. I bet if you disconnected the battery all together with the head light, and turned the heater off you would have kicked the bike succesfully as well.

Try it: just uplug the battery tonight and kick it over!
This worked for me. I made the mistake of buying a cheap chain-store battery. After a couple of rides the bike was kick-start only, then it wouldn't start at all unless I disconnected the battery.




In answer to EoEs questions, no it won't charge if you roll the bike in neutral, yes it will if you spin the motor. But just use the decomp lever, no need to pull the spark plug. Bonus: you won't suck dust into your motor.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:27 PM   #109
IheartmyNx
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forehead slap...

http://www.google.com/search?q=motor...hrome&ie=UTF-8 (Psst! It's a capacitor)


But that CEV switch looks bad-ass! You know, for those not-so-legal night ops
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:56 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
forehead slap...

http://www.google.com/search?q=motor...hrome&ie=UTF-8 (Psst! It's a capacitor)


But that CEV switch looks bad-ass! You know, for those not-so-legal night ops
Psst! The LC4 already has one. A much better one, no less.
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:27 PM   #111
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Psst! The LC4 already has one. A much better one, no less.

Ok, so if I wanted to run my Duke 2 Battery-less, what do I do with the pos and neg cables, and what's the start-up procedure?


still reading through this thread
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:17 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
Ok, so if I wanted to run my Duke 2 Battery-less, what do I do with the pos and neg cables, and what's the start-up procedure?


still reading through this thread

Disconnect the battery cables from the battery; secure and insulate them so they don't bump things or short to each other. Turn the headlight off when you want to start the bike. Everything else should be as normal.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:01 AM   #113
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So... I was out marshalling for our 6 hour cross-country race last Sunday. Turned the key on after a stop, and got nada. No neutral light, no instruments at all . After 7.5 years, the battery has finally carked it! The bike will start with a flat battery, but it takes a bit better kick than normal. About halfway down the instruments come on, and if you're good she'll fire up. Mostly when the bike is warm, it will start first kick, but on Sunday it had to be exactly right or it wouldn't.

And the problem with marshalling is that unlike racing, it is stop-start-stop-start-stop-start all day long. My left leg actually got tired from all the kick starts, first time that's happened! I did manage to bump-start it a few times, too.

Edit: P.S. I've lost the clock, so I'll have to find the thread on how to enable that again.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:12 AM   #114
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf View Post
So... I was out marshalling for our 6 hour cross-country race last Sunday. Turned the key on after a stop, and got nada. No neutral light, no instruments at all . After 7.5 years, the battery has finally carked it! The bike will start with a flat battery, but it takes a bit better kick than normal. About halfway down the instruments come on, and if you're good she'll fire up. Mostly when the bike is warm, it will start first kick, but on Sunday it had to be exactly right or it wouldn't.

And the problem with marshalling is that unlike racing, it is stop-start-stop-start-stop-start all day long. My left leg actually got tired from all the kick starts, first time that's happened! I did manage to bump-start it a few times, too.

Edit: P.S. I've lost the clock, so I'll have to find the thread on how to enable that again.
Get a new battery ya cheap bastage Colin!

I lost my clock too; maybe this will help us (from da index):
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280027
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:13 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf View Post
So... I was out marshalling for our 6 hour cross-country race last Sunday. Turned the key on after a stop, and got nada. No neutral light, no instruments at all . After 7.5 years, the battery has finally carked it! The bike will start with a flat battery, but it takes a bit better kick than normal. About halfway down the instruments come on, and if you're good she'll fire up. Mostly when the bike is warm, it will start first kick, but on Sunday it had to be exactly right or it wouldn't.

And the problem with marshalling is that unlike racing, it is stop-start-stop-start-stop-start all day long. My left leg actually got tired from all the kick starts, first time that's happened! I did manage to bump-start it a few times, too.

Edit: P.S. I've lost the clock, so I'll have to find the thread on how to enable that again.
If you have lost the clock function that usually means a fuse has blown... If the fuse has blown that usually indicates a short somewhere... Check your power plug wires as I believe it uses the same fuse as the clock... If you haven't had your key switch apart yet, it wouldn't be a bad idea to inspect it as well for broken contacts...
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:50 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Executive summary: Turn off your headlight.


This afternoon I decided to take a look at this problem. My bike is an '02 640 ADV, and I have never had any trouble kick starting it. My 'drill' is: turn it on and kick it. It usually takes 1-3 kicks to start. I had a theory about what the problem was which I won't share with you because I was able to prove it wrong.

Anyway, I disconnected the battery, turned off the headlights (HIDs) and it started on the third kick. After a little experimentation, I discovered that it won't start unless I start the kick at TDC. If I take the time to find TDC, it always starts. When I kick it the taillight and instrument cluster lights come on -for about a second if it doesn't start.

So what's the problem with everyone else's bike? Incandecent headlights, that's what. I hooked up the stock H1 bulb to the low beam and turned it on. The bike wouldn't start. No way. I got a slight orange glow out of the headlight filiment, and that's it.


So, If your battery is dead enough that the bike won't kick start, just turn off the headlight -or unplug it if you don't have a switch. You may also have to disconnect the battery (just unscrew the ground lead) - I don't know if a dead battery is too much of a load.


So now that I have the gist of things, what are the specifics? I measured the current in the +12V lead of the CDI box. It draws 55mA when the motor is stalled, and 150-175mA at idle. The current goes up when the motor revs, but I don't know how far, because my meter tops out at 200mA. This is less than 1/2 Watt.

I hooked up an external power supply to the +12V lead, and found that the CDI will work with a supply voltage as low as 5.3V.

I measured the +12V when I kicked the bike over, and found that the voltage was 9.5-11.8V with the taillight and instruments as a load, and dropped to 3.5-4.5V when a headlight was added to the load.

So basically, the kickstarter has more than enough power to fire the ignition, it just can't power the headlight as well.
Bump for Luke.
bill
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The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:55 PM   #117
bmwktmbill
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Epoch,
See the above post.
The easy way to shut off the headlight is to put an on/off switch n the low beam ground wire and install it on the dash, now you can turn the low beam off any time.
Nice when running off road.
bill


Quote:
Originally Posted by Epoch of Entropy View Post
Sorry to dig up and old thread, but I wanted to add a bit of information here from a recent experience with my 2001 640E.

So I woke up and tried to start the bike, but the battery was dead. No magic button, no headlights, no neutral light even. The heated grips switch was left on "high" from the night before and sat overnight and through the morning.

Deciding to try and take this as a learning experience, I did all that was immediately available to try and start the bike with a completely dead battery and no outside help. Note not just weak battery, or "my headlights are dim" dead, but completely drained. I multimeter would have read 0 output.
  1. Unplugged the headlight (easy on the E) and tried to kick start the bike (repeatedly), no love.
  2. Pushed the bike down the best incline I could find to try and bump start it a few times, no love.
  3. Went back to kick starting, again and and again and again and again and... no love.
  4. Gave up and put the bike on a charger for a few hours, started right up.


A few days later, I made the same dumb mistake and left the heated grips on (man I need a relay!) while eating breakfast at a diner. The battery was dead enough where the magic button wouldn't work but the headlights and neutral switch were dim and dying.
  1. Went to kick start the bike a few times, no love.
  2. Reached down and unplugged the headlight then gave it a good kick, right on the first kick.


The Conclusion:
I don't think that this bike will start with a completely drained battery, it needs SOME sort of juice to get the ignition system motivated. The trick to know now is how could one add juice to a dead battery out in the middle of noplace with no reliable outside help?

Will the charge system work if the bike is rolling downhill in the ON position but in neutral?

Can I put it into 5th gear with the spark plug out and spin the rear wheel some? (or all afternoon?)

Would anyone be willing to sacrifice their battery in the name of science?
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:24 AM   #118
warewolf
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Originally Posted by meat popsicle View Post
Get a new battery ya cheap bastage Colin!

I lost my clock too; maybe this will help us (from da index):
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280027
I was expecting to need to replace the battery once the new starter clutch parts were fitted. The only reason the battery survived this long is that it hasn't been used to start the bike. Could've picked a better day to die, though - ain't that always the way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
If you have lost the clock function that usually means a fuse has blown... If the fuse has blown that usually indicates a short somewhere... Check your power plug wires as I believe it uses the same fuse as the clock... If you haven't had your key switch apart yet, it wouldn't be a bad idea to inspect it as well for broken contacts...
Cheers, gunner. The clock has reappeared as 0:00 at some stage, and when I got home the battery charger worked through the dash power outlet - IIRC you are right about the shared the fuse - but I will check it all out. I did re-solder the key switch a few weeks ago.

Edit: I should add, my bike has a headlight switch, so the lights spent the rest of the day off.
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Colin
KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.

warewolf screwed with this post 09-22-2012 at 02:05 AM
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:01 AM   #119
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf View Post
I was expecting to need to replace the battery once the new starter clutch parts were fitted. The only reason the battery survived this long is that it hasn't been used to start the bike. Could've picked a better day to die, though - ain't that always the way!

Cheers, gunner. The clock has reappeared as 0:00 at some stage, and when I got home the battery charger worked through the dash power outlet - IIRC you are right about the shared the fuse - but I will check it all out. I did re-solder the key switch a few weeks ago.

Edit: I should add, my bike has a headlight switch, so the lights spent the rest of the day off.
Your clock will reappear and can be reset but as soon as you switch the key off and on it will go back to 00:00 as the fuse powers the memory...
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:13 AM   #120
warewolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Your clock will reappear and can be reset but as soon as you switch the key off and on it will go back to 00:00 as the fuse powers the memory...
It's not a 100% failed fuse then, because this morning it was showing 17:29. Definitely needs investigation.

Today I left the bike idling for a while and then stalled it. I couldn't start it again, didn't get any instruments when kicked so probably the idling sucked the life out of the battery. Left the bike alone for 3-5 mins, then when I turned the key on I got instruments and it kicked into life easily.
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KTM LC4 640 Question? Check here first --> KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
All racers I know aren't in it for the money. They race because it's something inside of them... They're not courting death. They're courting being alive.
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