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Old 09-23-2012, 12:15 AM   #16
opmike
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Originally Posted by Mrs6gun View Post
I signed up for a beginner MSF course which started today to learn how to ride, and much to my surprise I was so unlucky to receive the MSF instructor from HELL. I was in a class of 8 people. There was an extra person in the class that had not signed up prior to. I think he was a friend of the instructor because he came in late and did not get dismissed as the rules say. The course was not at all as I expected. I have alway been a passenger on bikes and had no riding experience. When I paid for the class, I confirmed that the class was for beginners who had no riding experience and was told that was correct. The first part of the class today was supposed to be class instruction but consisted of the class finding answers to the review questions in the back of the MSF book and watching a few videos. It was not exactly a detailed, informative session as I had expected. After lunch, we went out to get on the bikes. The instructor proceeded to fly through the controls and the process of cranking the bikes. He then had us to briefly practice with the clutch and do the power walk, After doing the power walk a few times, he informed me that he did not feel I was learning the process. I explained that I signed up for a beginner course but was made to feel like I was holding the class up. Instead of patiently working through the process with me, the instructor was a very impatient jerk. I was one of two people in the class that had no riding experience. All the others had riding experience. He was letting the ones with riding experience determine his class. I feel like only BEGINNERS should be allowed in the BEGINNER class. This was a very bad experience for me, but he did not break my spirit of learning to ride. Not sure if I will learn through another MSF course. My tolerance for jerks gets lower as I get older.
I disagree that only beginners should be allowed in; that's absurd. There are many returning riders that could benefit from the class, and many supposedly experienced riders that are still a gust of wind away from dropping their bikes at the local mini mart. Your issue was with the instructor, not the relative capabilities of other students that signed up and paid for the class. If he was letting the experienced riders dictate the pace, then he wasn't doing his job.

The same is also true if he lets a struggling student slow the entire class down to the point that things are no longer being accomplished in the set time. A good instructor finds a balance.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:59 AM   #17
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Most people who come through the class have some small bit of riding experience. In the vast majority of clases there are only two or three true novices. The most I've ever seen is about six out of twelve. Generally it's better for a novice to be in with an experienced class. It gives the novice people to emulate and something to shoot for. Too many complete novices in a class can create problems. They frequently get too comfortable with their lack of skill and it's hard to get them to progress. You can almost see little cartoon bubbles appear over their heads as they look around. "Man I suck at this, but I'm not as bad a him, so I'm good-to-go!"

That being said, for whatever reason it didn't work for you. You don't appear to like the group setting. I recommend you take a few private lessons. They're a little expensive, but well worth it for someone in your situation.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:00 AM   #18
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The instructors read from a scripted flip card with time limits.

You either keep up or you don't.

I had years of riding before I took the class and throroughly enjoyed it.

My 15 year old step daughter with a reading comprehension impairment took it the following year and enjoyed it and passed it easily.

A good friend's wife who has ridden bitch her whole life took it, couldn't keep up, couldn't remember which side was the clutch or the brake, dumped the bike twice and finally left in a crying hissy fit because they kept telling her to LEAN in the curves. She then traded her bike in for a Can-Am Spyder. You can't fail the state test on three wheels and she will never return to ANY class because no one was there to suck up to her Barbie Doll performance.

If you seriously think you need EXTRA attention from the instructor to figure out which way to squeeze the clutch and don't figure it out within 2.1 seconds, then perhaps riding isn't for you. It couldn't be any more remedial without letting you drool on yourself.

If you still have the desire to ride, go out and get a dirt bike and learn it yourself. You can spend a billion dollars on private tutoring, but if you still lack the self confidence and basic motor skills, then you are a liability to yourself with a license.

Your own husband summed it up best when he said you have a wiggly ass as a passenger. You can't sit still when someone else is in control, you won't listen when someone criticizes you, you are the victim of everyone else's attempts to help you and you are probably a spoiled brat as well because your husband had to thump his chest at anyone who poked fun at you.

That Georgia Peach bullshit don't fly around here.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
The instructors read from a scripted flip card with time limits.

You either keep up or you don't.

I had years of riding before I took the class and throroughly enjoyed it.

My 15 year old step daughter with a reading comprehension impairment took it the following year and enjoyed it and passed it easily.

A good friend's wife who has ridden bitch her whole life took it, couldn't keep up, couldn't remember which side was the clutch or the brake, dumped the bike twice and finally left in a crying hissy fit because they kept telling her to LEAN in the curves. She then traded her bike in for a Can-Am Spyder. You can't fail the state test on three wheels and she will never return to ANY class because no one was there to suck up to her Barbie Doll performance.

If you seriously think you need EXTRA attention from the instructor to figure out which way to squeeze the clutch and don't figure it out within 2.1 seconds, then perhaps riding isn't for you. It couldn't be any more remedial without letting you drool on yourself.

If you still have the desire to ride, go out and get a dirt bike and learn it yourself. You can spend a billion dollars on private tutoring, but if you still lack the self confidence and basic motor skills, then you are a liability to yourself with a license.

Your own husband summed it up best when he said you have a wiggly ass as a passenger. You can't sit still when someone else is in control, you won't listen when someone criticizes you, you are the victim of everyone else's attempts to help you and you are probably a spoiled brat as well because your husband had to thump his chest at anyone who poked fun at you.

That Georgia Peach bullshit don't fly around here.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:09 AM   #20
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It couldn't be any more remedial without letting you drool on yourself.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs6gun View Post
My tolerance for jerks gets lower as I get older.
You shouldn't be so intolerant of yourself. Perhaps you could learn to ride a motocycle to sooth your intolerance. Oh... that would take some ability to follow instruction and not be just bitch baggage.I think I see the problem.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:23 AM   #22
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If the 2 of you have a bike or 2, why take them to a big empty parking lot and do some drills? Today you could find one, being Sunday.

They wouldn't be hard to recreate.

If she would be uncomfortable with Mr.6 teaching find someone else, or just help her to set up cones, but then just let her do her thing.

Like Jim's suggestion, you could just ride the drills with her so she has someone to emulate. Not teaching per se, but just offering her a look at what needs to be done.

That way when you go back you won't be a total newb. I assume that's what the instructors are kind of hoping for.

When I took it there were some total newbs, just like the others mentioned in this thread. They seemed to pick it up and pass the test. I think one of them even dropped a bike. Our instructor was stern and a bit gruff, but they have a pretty big responsibility, sheparding the newbs.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:05 AM   #23
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Firstly, it's the MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)...not "Beginner" Rider Course..reasons were given earlier-the BRC helps riders learn Basic riding skills (clutch, braking, shifting, cornering). It is appropriate for both brand new riders and those who've ridden awhile.

It was nice to see the hardened riders show up with their spouse to take the BRC; many times the husband would pull me aside and explain that their expert skills would eliminate me giving them any attention and that I could just let them ride.

I usually replied, "Great! I expect you to ease out the clutch without giving it too much or too little throttle, to stop perfectly at the right spot and ride at the quick end of the cornering exercise."

As you might imagine, that rarely happened as even seasoned riders could pick up a few things when given the chance to ride on a closed course with a Rider Coach (RC) giving helpful suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
The instructors read from a scripted flip card with time limits. You either keep up or you don't. I had years of riding before I took the class and throroughly enjoyed it.
That is a gross oversimplification of the RC guidelines. If a rider consistently feels rushed then they probably need to run thru the troubling exercises again. Yes, sometimes we ran exercises twice! Riders who rode the exercise perfectly were given the option to ride it the second time. And riders who still struggled were asked to stay over and arrive early the next day for some individual riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
A good friend's wife who has ridden bitch her whole life took it, couldn't keep up, couldn't remember which side was the clutch or the brake, dumped the bike twice and finally left in a crying hissy fit because they kept telling her to LEAN in the curves.
I understand the phrase "riding bitch" can be just an expression...I wonder if that good friend's wife felt obligated to get her own moto because it was demeaning to "ride bitch"? And it's not leaning that riders are asked to learn, it's countersteering. There is a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uglyprimate View Post
Your own husband summed it up best when he said you have a wiggly ass as a passenger. You can't sit still when someone else is in control, you won't listen when someone criticizes you, you are the victim of everyone else's attempts to help you and you are probably a spoiled brat as well because your husband had to thump his chest at anyone who poked fun at you.
I've seen some extreme examples of couples taking the course together. We usually kept the spouses as far apart as possible. I'm not sure that all that is necessarily true about the OP. I hate to hear that any rider did not have a good time in the course. IIRC, with a single RC the max riders is 7.

The OP should get in touch with whoever admin's the course and ask to take it again at no charge with a different RC. If you don't get satisfaction there, you can take it up with the state certification board (most GA Rider Coaches are also certified by the state).
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:25 AM   #24
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Fir

The OP should get in touch with whoever admin's the course and ask to take it again at no charge with a different RC. If you don't get satisfaction there, you can take it up with the state certification board (most GA Rider Coaches are also certified by the state).
er .. why should the course provider offer a 'no charge' for someone who needs extra tuition to make the grade? If the prospective rider was a complete noob / in need of etra tuition they could access one on one private tuition to ascertain their learning needs. A course is not guarantee of competency

We are talking riding a motorcycle here which takes a few more smarts than walking down the sidewalk. It never fails to amaze me that people see motorcycle riding as a right not a competence.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:51 AM   #25
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er .. why should the course provider offer a 'no charge' for someone who needs extra tuition to make the grade? ....
Because I'm a kind-hearted rider who is eager to see new riders learn and practice life-saving skills.

My point about taking it to the admin of the course is because most programs will allow a rider to recycle thru another course for n/c.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:58 AM   #26
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Because I'm a kind-hearted rider who is eager to see new riders learn and practice life-saving skills.

My point about taking it to the admin of the course is because most programs will allow a rider to recycle thru another course for n/c.



The OP's husband said they were getting a refund.

So she should get a class for free???
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:02 AM   #27
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MSF course is better than nothing, but theoretical BS and dopey, arrogant teachers aren't going to provide you with most of the skills needed to handle your bike in adverse conditions and situations. Anybody can be an MFS instructor, Your "instructor' might have only had a few years of uneventful riding experience himself.

If you want to invest in your riding career, and possibly life, buy a 125 dirt bike off of Craigslist and ride it every weekend. There are zillions of places around GA where this is possible. You will learn advanced bike handling skills that will be applicable in real world situations. You will also learn to fall. It sort of defies explanation, but its an important part of being comfortable on your bike. There is just nothing like trail/woods riding to hone your reflex's and bike handling skills.
Good luck, and dont let arrogant, prickish MC bro's wreck your riding experience
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:11 AM   #28
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #29
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Teaching is an art and some people aren't artists. My course was hellish, too, but that was a long time ago and I think most bad instructors were weeded out long ago. Obviously not all of them. I learned to drive cars in Montreal and therefore am a very defensive driver/rider. I flunked the course for "not being aggressive enough." My instructor rode into a semi a few months later. I'm still alive with many thousands of riding miles since then.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:34 AM   #30
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The OP's husband said they were getting a refund.

So she should get a class for free???
No, of course not.

In lieu of a refund, take the course a second time.

Rider Coaches aren't so much in the business of "teaching" as they are facilitating learning. It's preposterous to think that all MSF-certified RC's are expert riders.

Rather, the RC course ensured they could accurately ride the demo's, stick to the curriculum (minimize the "there I was" stories) and facilitate the ability of new riders to learn the gross and fine motor skills necessary for basic motorcycle operation..on a closed course...around some cones.

MSF courses aren't perfect, but they are far better than Uncle Billie trying to teach someone to ride around the backyard (or some variation thereof).
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