Fun With Carbon Fiber

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Before making plugs, you need to gain the basic skills which will allow you to cope with contact moulding successfully.

Good morning, Twin!

I fully intend on using every bowl in the house to build my GRP skills with. Then I plan on practicing making molds of these items (maybe even a two part mold if I'm feeling fancy) and using those simple molds to cast parts.

But until the supplies arrive, I figure why not work on my plug making skills.

[elgato gordo]

Another method to make molds or masters is to use modeling clay then apply mold release and layup over the whole thing. I will survive a vacuum bag and can even take a gel coat. Does not yield a perfect surface but can be used for a fast first take of a part or a mold.

I hate sanding!

[redprimo]

Originally Posted by therivermonster

I have the fun factor taken care of, man! I'm having a blast with this stuff! I hope all of you are too.

Anyhow, I'll keep pluggin' away (plug joke) and all of you, please keep the great suggestions and lessons comming. This stuff is priceless!

The paste wax when buffed back will be 1 molocule thick, no matter how many coats you apply. A second coat is not a huge waste since it might cover any spots missed on the first go round, any more than that and it is just wax on,wax off... literaly.

Tap Plastics prices are a bit higher, particularly on cloth, wax and all the smaller quantities of other things but when you factor in shipping and any haz mat fees you can come out ahead. Plus they are open on Saturday so you can run down and pick up something so the rest of the weekend wont go to waste. I used to buy their 314 epoxy resin 5 gal at a time and thought the price was in-line with West System 3. I rarely buy cloth there but it is nice to have a local source for it that sells by the yd or foot.

[redprimo]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Before making plugs, you need to gain the basic skills which will allow you to cope with contact moulding successfully.

Both require specific skill sets and neither is a pre-requisite for the other. I don't see the harm in practicing on a useful part, you might end you with something you can use. There is nothing learned so well as the hard earned lesson of insuficient mold release applied to a pattern with a lot of hours invested.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by elgato gordo

Another method to make molds or masters is to use modeling clay then apply mold release and layup over the whole thing. I will survive a vacuum bag and can even take a gel coat. Does not yield a perfect surface but can be used for a fast first take of a part or a mold.

I hate sanding!

Hey Gordo!

I have actually given this technique a bunch of thought, and believe it or not I have a little bit of experience with it. My dad was a taxidermist for most of his life and made many clay plugs in prep for FG molds - good stuff. Too bad he wasn't around longer.

I'll keep this one in the plug tool chest for sure.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by redprimo

The paste wax when buffed back will be 1 molocule thick, no matter how many coats you apply. A second coat is not a huge waste since it might cover any spots missed on the first go round, any more than that and it is just wax on,wax off... literaly.

Tap Plastics prices are a bit higher, particularly on cloth, wax and all the smaller quantities of other things but when you factor in shipping and any haz mat fees you can come out ahead. Plus they are open on Saturday so you can run down and pick up something so the rest of the weekend wont go to waste. I used to buy their 314 epoxy resin 5 gal at a time and thought the price was in-line with West System 3. I rarely buy cloth there but it is nice to have a local source for it that sells by the yd or foot.

I watched some of the Fiberglast videos last night and they are all about lots of layers of wax with an hour of wait time between layers. I wonder why they do that as it doesn't really make sense to me either.

I can see how TAP could save on some shipping charges, so I'll have to have a drive up to their store and take a look.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by redprimo

Both require specific skill sets and neither is a pre-requisite for the other. I don't see the harm in practicing on a useful part, you might end you with something you can use. There is nothing learned so well as the hard earned lesson of insuficient mold release applied to a pattern with a lot of hours invested.

I really enjoy the plug building process. I feel that it is a big part of creating some part from nothing, and I really like to see it come together. My little fairing is coming together fairly well I suppose.

Speaking of lessons, I have given much thought to a mold not releasing from the plug. I think that I understand the basics and how to avoid this (no negative curves, good wax job, good PVA coats, pull gently but firmly), but any more advice would be great. What things should I avoid, what things are must do-s?

You guys are great! Keep it coming!

[Twin-shocker]

Practice the basics using plastic containers as moulds, then apply release to the outside of the parts you have made, and lay up over them to get experience of whats needed for hassle free release of parts.

If you have 40-50 hours into making a mould, and it wont release from the plug, its going to be a real bummer, so practice on things that dont matter first. Remember though that is you choose to use PVA the surface finish of parts isnt going to be that great, so its maybe best to avoid this if its difficult to manually final finish parts or tooling.

[stumpy-ktm]

hello , keep up the good work , ... i have just made my first part with carbon fibre , i made a leg "fairing " for my prosthetic leg , ... one practise one in fibre glass , then i made the cf one , ... made a mold of my other leg to get dimensions right , them made a front and back mold ... high gloss finish for the surface , wax on the mold release , lay up the cf into the mold , wait till it goes off , then "pop" comes right out ... heres some pics .


the molds


fresh out of the molds

[Brad Felmey]

That's simply awesome.

Originally Posted by stumpy-ktm

hello , keep up the good work , ... i have just made my first part with carbon fibre , i made a leg "fairing " for my prosthetic leg , ... one practise one in fibre glass , then i made the cf one , ... made a mold of my other leg to get dimensions right , them made a front and back mold ... high gloss finish for the surface , wax on the mold release , lay up the cf into the mold , wait till it goes off , then "pop" comes right out ... heres some pics .


the molds


fresh out of the molds

[JimVonBaden]

Like Brad said! Very cool!

Jim

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Practice the basics using plastic containers as moulds, then apply release to the outside of the parts you have made, and lay up over them to get experience of whats needed for hassle free release of parts.
I am going to do this. Great idea! Thanks again, Twin!

If you have 40-50 hours into making a mould, and it wont release from the plug, its going to be a real bummer, so practice on things that dont matter first. Remember though that is you choose to use PVA the surface finish of parts isnt going to be that great, so its maybe best to avoid this if its difficult to manually final finish parts or tooling.

I have really only read about wax and PVA being used. if PVA isn't used as a mold release agent, then what else could be used?

I would hate to have a plug destroyed because the mold wouldn't come off, but I suppose that it could happen sometime.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by stumpy-ktm

hello , keep up the good work , ... i have just made my first part with carbon fibre , i made a leg "fairing " for my prosthetic leg , ... one practise one in fibre glass , then i made the cf one , ... made a mold of my other leg to get dimensions right , them made a front and back mold ... high gloss finish for the surface , wax on the mold release , lay up the cf into the mold , wait till it goes off , then "pop" comes right out ... heres some pics .


the molds


fresh out of the molds

Danm! I can't see the pictures here at work, but this sounds awesome. I can't wait to get home and check out your project.

Stumpy, how did you loose your leg?

[therivermonster]

The man in brown just dropped off a bunch of goodies here at my place of employment. Check out the links below to see what's included.

Belt Sander: I needed something to trim up edges and flanges of the composite parts that we'll be making here pretty soon, and this seemed to be just the ticket. It is a Harbor Freight tool, so we'll see how it goes, but to be fair it has received some good reviews.
For anyone that is interested in looking into this sander, check out the YouTube videos about tuning the tool. I'll also include some details about how it's working for me when I have a chance to sand some stuff with it.

MAX CLR-HP Epoxy Resin: I chose this resin per the recommendation of Ebrabaek. If you guys don't remember who he is, check out the Resources in the first post of this thread. I guess he really likes this stuff.

5.7 Oz 2x2 Twill CF Fabric: Second item down on the page. I was very surprised when I looked at this product for the first time. It was very well packaged, rolled on a stout cardboard roll, and securely wrapped in paper. The cloth is clean and looks very nice. This is the first time that I have ever seen CF in cloth form.

8.5 Oz 2x2 Twill FG Fabric: 5th item down on the page. The cloth seemed like it would be a good all around material to get started with. I have actually ordered some 1.5 oz mat, and some 4 oz plain weave E glass to compliment the 8.5. I'm hoping that these three options will allow me to practice making small molds and small parts.

Mold Release Products: I purchased the top two items on the page: Partall #10 PVA, and #2 Paste Wax. Hopefully these work well enough. Fingers crossed.

I also picked up some mixing cups and stirring sticks, but nothing worth posting a link to.

I ride the DR to work just about every day, so I'll have to make a trip in with the car to pick all the goodies up. Once I get everything back to the shop, I'll post some pics. I'm excited!!

[stumpy-ktm]

hey rivermonster ..... make sure your mold is as smooooooth as possible , wax on 5 or so coats of release wax ... then i use a wet cloth with the pva on it and wipe all over the mold to give it a nice barrier,,, let it dry then add another pva layer .... let it dry ...very important !!! then start adding either your gelcoat or resin and cloth ..... good luck .

as for how i lost my beautiful leg ...go to "face plant" forum and look at "my story"
cheers