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Old 09-30-2012, 08:23 AM   #69706
Rumlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
great visuals!

how is it people say the ktm needle works better than an oem needle shimmed? i have 2 washers under an oem needle and was thinking about a ktm needle. i see a wider ktm needle and that means less gas at the oem needle assuming the same resting position.

even the fp needle is wider. the only advantage those 2 have is clip adjust-ability but washers under the factory needle work just fine to raise the needle and thus more gas...plus the factory needle is thinner as lets more gas through. i see it being the best oem shape option. plus the fp & ktm needle are longer and sit deeper in the carb, less gas, than oem.


am i missing something here???
I am pretty sure the numbers in the chart represent the area left open around the needle -- not the needle diamenter. So it is a little confusing. The KTM one is actually slightly thinner throughout then the (DR) OEM.

Also the KTM needle is slightly longer because it was designed to be used with the white spacer and an additional (KTM) washer under that, so I am assuming it would sit basically at the same height as the DR needle.


Edit: Just speculating here, but the additional metal washer/shim on the KTM may have been to protect the white spacer from wear because of the vibrations from the KTM motor. The extra weight of that washer (added to the overall slide weight) may have also contributed to the reason why the KTM slide had two lift holes, to optimize slide lift.

Rumlover screwed with this post 09-30-2012 at 09:18 AM
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:24 AM   #69707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
Ding Aling,thats the hard way.The reply from the poster is the easy way.But ya thats the way to do when all else failsNothing wrong with asking first.Thats what this fourm is for
The stock seat bolts are turned to a bit of point (at least mine are) to make it easier to start them when the seat is fightin' yah.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:42 AM   #69708
sandwash
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
The stock seat bolts are turned to a bit of point (at least mine are) to make it easier to start them when the seat is fightin' yah.
I hear ya,it's just back to the bolt store to get another bolt that went missing.The last one was a heat shield bolt.The last one lasted 3 years
Bike Runs very well and strong.Move up to 7000',had to change out the pilot down one size(turning it did nothing till fully closed) and the needle clip lower one slot.Plugs alittle dark.The thing starts up at 40 degree weather on one or two rev with no choke.All in all very happy with it
Other than the horn bracket breaking in half again,it's all good.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:48 AM   #69709
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Originally Posted by Thumper Dan View Post
Why is that Jeff, so the tank doesn't distort too much. I did notice this time I've taken the tank off compared to others times is I had quite a bit of fuel in it - around 3/4 full. May this is why it was a struggle?
Yes. One time I had the half full Safari off the bike for a week. The tank spread so much that the front brace holes were 1-1/2" off! I had to wrap a ratchet tiedown around the tank to squeeze it enough the get the brace bolts in. It was a major PITA.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:33 AM   #69710
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oh man you're right. i was reading that inversely. thnx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I am pretty sure the numbers in the chart represent the area left open around the needle -- not the needle diamenter. So it is a little confusing. The KTM one is actually slightly thinner throughout then the (DR) OEM.

Also the KTM needle is slightly longer because it was designed to be used with the white spacer and an additional (KTM) washer under that, so I am assuming it would sit basically at the same height as the DR needle.


Edit: Just speculating here, but the additional metal washer/shim on the KTM may have been to protect the white spacer from wear because of the vibrations from the KTM motor. The extra weight of that washer (added to the overall slide weight) may have also contributed to the reason why the KTM slide had two lift holes, to optimize slide lift.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:04 AM   #69711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
great visuals!

how is it people say the ktm needle works better than an oem needle shimmed? i have 2 washers under an oem needle and was thinking about a ktm needle. i see a wider ktm needle and that means less gas at the oem needle assuming the same resting position.

even the fp needle is wider. the only advantage those 2 have is clip adjust-ability but washers under the factory needle work just fine to raise the needle and thus more gas...plus the factory needle is thinner as lets more gas through. i see it being the best oem shape option. plus the fp & ktm needle are longer and sit deeper in the carb, less gas, than oem.


am i missing something here???
Aside from the clarification by Rumlover about exposed area (thanks Rumlover!), also note that except for the DJ needle, the chart seems to be arranged with the tips even, which isn't all that useful. It would be better to look at mxrob's chart with the diameters, simply because the measurements are all taken in relationship to distance from the third clip (when adjustable).

As shimming the needle clip preloads the slide spring beyond standard, it results in lowering the slide rather than raising the needle. I would not shim the needle clip unless the goal is actually to lower the slide for a given intersection of throttle angle and rpm. Note that the additional preload from shimming the needle will also make the slide come off the stop at a later point in terms of rpm and throttle position (i.e. more velocity will be required to get it to come up off of the stop).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:14 AM   #69712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
The thing starts up at 40 degree weather on one or two rev with no choke........
This normally means the idle circuit is too rich and could be wasting fuel once the engine warms up. But you're happy with it, so theoretical guessing on my part is irrelevant. I'm just jealous that you have a TM-40 and I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yes. One time I had the half full Safari off the bike for a week. The tank spread so much that the front brace holes were 1-1/2" off! I had to wrap a ratchet tiedown around the tank to squeeze it enough the get the brace bolts in. It was a major PIA.
Dang, 1-1/2" is a bunch. I'm glad you measured it to give others an idea of what to look for.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:15 AM   #69713
Rumlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Aside from the clarification by Rumlover about exposed area (thanks Rumlover!), also note that except for the DJ needle, the chart seems to be arranged with the tips even, which isn't all that useful. It would be better to look at mxrob's chart with the diameters, simply because the measurements are all taken in relationship to distance from the third clip (when adjustable).

As shimming the needle clip preloads the slide spring beyond standard, it results in lowering the slide rather than raising the needle. I would not shim the needle clip unless the goal is actually to lower the slide for a given intersection of throttle angle and rpm. Note that the additional preload from shimming the needle will also make the slide come off the stop at a later point in terms of rpm and throttle position (i.e. more velocity will be required to get it to come up off of the stop).

Regards,

Derek
The only issue I have with mxrob's chart is that it doesn't show the white spacer (or the metal KTM shim) under the clip. That is the stock configuration, and would put the bottoms of the needles (KTM vs DR) at pretty much the same height.
Just the addition of the white spacer alone would put them a lot closer.

Also I believe the general consensus is that the DJ needle in that chart is meant to sit at the bottom of the slide (along side the shelf, not on the shelf). This would also make its installed height a little closer to (DR) OEM then pictured in the chart.
Not sure how the Procycle needle falls in there height wise compared to OEM. A lot of variables to be sure.

Rumlover screwed with this post 09-30-2012 at 11:06 AM
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:52 AM   #69714
sandwash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwash
The thing starts up at 40 degree weather on one or two rev with no choke........


"This normally means the idle circuit is too rich and could be wasting fuel once the engine warms up. But you're happy with it, so theoretical guessing on my part is irrelevant. I'm just jealous that you have a TM-40 and I don't. "

Well it's a FCR-MX,almost the same thing
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:03 AM   #69715
MADurstewitz
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Originally Posted by V8 View Post
So, does anyone here have a 790 or 780 kit installed?
790. Yes! I love it! While I was in there (bearing failure made me rebuild the motor) I put in skf bearings and kibblewhite valves as well. Lots of smooth power. Bike goes like hell and still gets great mileage.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #69716
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Well it's a FCR-MX,almost the same thing
Oops.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:11 PM   #69717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper Dan View Post
Getting the Safari tank back on was the marathon of the day. The alignment with the brackets seems to change every time I take it off and back on again. I seem to be coming up with new techniques to get the bloody thing back on.

I may start a "how to put the safari tank back on hints and tips thread page"..............is there one out there already.

anyway, thanks for all the feedback (again)
I didn't realize the Safari was difficult to remove/replace. If that's the case with ALL of them ... then definitely not for me. I've taken my IMS off and on at least 30 times in just the last few years. I routinely take the tank off for any maintenance or Carb tuning. Very handy with the IMS, which comes in just minutes. I've done it on the road in Mexico, never a problem.

Access is important to me ... and is a BIG PLUS on the DR650 in general.
I see guys on BMW's sweating in the hot sun, going through 30 minutes of struggle just to get down to something.

The IMS and new Acerbis give over 230 to 250 miles of range (depending how bike is tuned) . Plenty of range for this continent ... Oz is a different world of course.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #69718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
The IMS and new Acerbis give over 230 to 250 miles of range (depending how bike is tuned) . Plenty of range for this continent ... Oz is a different world of course.
I got 60 miles to the gallon on one tankful recently. Almost 300 mile range on that tank. (IMS tank) I've gone to a 16-tooth front sprocket.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:30 PM   #69719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I didn't realize the Safari was difficult to remove/replace. If that's the case with ALL of them ... then definitely not for me. I've taken my IMS off and on at least 30 times in just the last few years. I routinely take the tank off for any maintenance or Carb tuning. Very handy with the IMS, which comes in just minutes. I've done it on the road in Mexico, never a problem.

Access is important to me ... and is a BIG PLUS on the DR650 in general.
I see guys on BMW's sweating in the hot sun, going through 30 minutes of struggle just to get down to something.

The IMS and new Acerbis give over 230 to 250 miles of range (depending how bike is tuned) . Plenty of range for this continent ... Oz is a different world of course.
It only seemed on this occasion that it was difficult to get back on. Previous times, it aligned more or less straight away. As I mentioned earlier, the tank had a lot of fuel in it so may have been "flexing" a bit.

Even though it can create some issues, I still love my safari tank and the range I get with it. Even the fact I don't have to go into and fuel up is such a convenience. Last time I fueled up I had 732km and still hadn't hit reserve.

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Old 09-30-2012, 05:03 PM   #69720
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Question

Friends
somebody rescue me from the "First Gear Clunk"... My 97 has a bad case of it. I've replaced the clutch cable, adjusted, adjusted, adjusted, adjusted, changed the oil [currently running Rotella HD 15/40], sacrificed two chickens and a snake, all to no avail. Strained my old oil for any telltale signs and found NO debris at all, though I tried hard. nothing on the magnetic plug either

mine, like others have reported, is sensitive to temperature and engine speed, and of course, movement. just move it forward at slow walking speed and its really happy. move it backward and its nasty. cold it behaves ok. warm it is more cooperative. hot its ugly.

upshifting to 2nd is almost as dicey, and downshifting from 3rd to 2nd is like dropping off a ledge

suggestions?
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