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Old 09-29-2012, 06:13 PM   #16
Tooltech
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KTM 500 EXC...hang on!

If you have never had a race bike you need to treat yourself to one. I had the 530 EXC which was a really good bike. I now have a 2013 500 EXC which is a great bike. The engine and fuel injection are perfect, suspension...perfect. If you want an absolute ROCKET ( with good manners ) buy it.

Oil is changed at 15 hour intervals. Tires are good for 30 hours if you are very careful...if you are heavy handed the tires are good for 7-10 hours. The rear tire is a 140/80-18 I would not try a 120 because it would just spin and not hook up. This bike has so much power you do not need to get on it...most people could not hang on any way. Stock gearing is perfect as is. First gear...you have a trials bike, sixth gear you have 100 mph ( rapidly ).

Try it you will like it...
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Off the grid View Post
The cevat is that the EXC can do the things the WRR does (except for the 26k valve checks) but the WRR will never be able to do the things the EXC can do.
Only my opinion, riding is 80% the rider & 20% the bike
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:06 PM   #18
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similar situation recently

The 500 is NOT a typical dual sport. As it has been said, it is a race bike with lights. At 180lbs without gear, for me, it is under sprung. I think it is sprung for 165lbs. I enjoy the occasional day at the motocross track though. Race Tech is about to get some of my $$. The seat was the first thing to go (seat concepts), HDB hand guards, bigger tank, and some wolfman bags and I spent a great week in Colorado.



It runs like a scalded dog. Wheelies in 1-4th gear with just throttle with 14/48 gearing. Stock 15/45 gearing is better for true dual sporting, but not anywhere close to low enough for true woods riding.
My best friend has an 06 450EXC, not even in the same ballpark. And it's jetted. Great bike, but needs revs to perform, similar to the WR (I have ridden a stock WR but not one that has been modded). It doesn't have near the low end torque of the FI 500. Which can be good or bad depending on your riding style. It doesn't take long to get into the power on the 500, cause its everywhere. I LOVE IT.
WR owners say it is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. I half way agree, I like riding my wife's CRF230 every now and then, but its no open class bike. Several WR's were sold for a bike with more power. I thought I made a mistake when I bought the 500 over the WR, but I am getting used to the power. And it can be ridden slow... but why? It is so easy to go fast on the 500. It makes up for my lack of skill...

My .02
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:05 PM   #19
DaveInSt.Augustine
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Resale value

One thing to look at is resale value, lets say you put 10,000 miles on a KTM 500, what's it going to be worth? Do the same with a WR250R, you'll probably be able to recoup more of your money when you sell it. That's one thing preventing me from buying a KTM 500 exc, it's almost like you should sell the KTM at a certain point to prevent from loosing like all of your money, haha.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by dave_t08 View Post
One thing to look at is resale value, lets say you put 10,000 miles on a KTM 500, what's it going to be worth? Do the same with a WR250R, you'll probably be able to recoup more of your money when you sell it. That's one thing preventing me from buying a KTM 500 exc, it's almost like you should sell the KTM at a certain point to prevent from loosing like all of your money, haha.
That's a terrible reason to buy a dirt bike. As I understand it, Harleys are also very good about resale, but I wouldn't buy one of those piles over many of the other much better motorcycles available. When you buy a dirt bike, it's going to be hammered off road, so its performance and reliability should be foremost in the selection process. I actually think the WRR is a very good bike, but it's not cheap either. Buying dirt bikes for resale value isn't worth it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:05 AM   #21
GAS GUY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_t08 View Post
One thing to look at is resale value, lets say you put 10,000 miles on a KTM 500, what's it going to be worth? Do the same with a WR250R, you'll probably be able to recoup more of your money when you sell it. That's one thing preventing me from buying a KTM 500 exc, it's almost like you should sell the KTM at a certain point to prevent from loosing like all of your money, haha.
That brings up another very real issue.
Everybody needs to ask themselves what can I really afford.
10 k for a high maintenance dirt bike is over the top for me, but if money wasn't an issue then it is a bargain.

Its just like the Bmw thing, they are an amazing bike, but expensive and if things start going south out of warranty can put you in the poorhouse quickly, especially when you overextended in the first place to buy the bike.

So, ask yourself those things first.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:17 AM   #22
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Very thoughtful post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
I'm responding here because I feel your pain. I'm torn, too. But I need a DS, not a race bike. (My total solution would be a WR450R if Yamaha would ever make one.) Here are a few questions that I've asked myself:

Day rides of 100 miles? Mostly dirt roads and some single track? To me, that screams WRR. Most WRR fans get used to the power and adjust their riding style accordingly. You've had one. Can you do that?

If your are going KTM, I think you should look at the 350 EXC, not the 500. The 500 has monster torque and by the end of the day, can be tiring to ride. Pantah's son only needed the 500 to exceed 90 mph (target was 110 mph to be competitive as he explained in another thread) in a 1000-mile desert race. Americans get hooked on bigger is better. I've never believed that, and I still don't. (To be fair, the 500 is SOHC, and the 350 is DOHC, so valves on the 350 are a bit more complicated.) They weigh almost the same. The 500's outsell the 350's - maybe the 350's are more available? Read both the 350 and 500 threads on this site.

Yes, KTM's require less frequent maintenance if you are not racing. However, they are race engines with high hp/liter, and much more highly-stressed components. Regardless of how you ride, they require more TLC than the Yamaha. The biggest difference may actually be the suspension. Will you use the KTM's capabilities? KTM's are also lighter because they have weaker subframes and don't carry big alternators. Is that OK with you? If so, go for it.

Finally, you will also end up spending money to customize the KTM. You will (evenutally) put on a different seat, may want different or higher bars, handguards, larger tank, etc. Tires are a wear item on both bikes.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:36 AM   #23
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I love my super light, high revving 310 IN the woods. It's not made to "drive around", it wants to go fast and climb/ jump stuff.
My 610 is my "exploring" bike I guess. Rides awesome, lots of power, but the extra 60lbs is very unwanted when I have to pick it up.

I hav two buddies with plated WR450s and I've had 2 Husky 450s, they are a good mix bike. Still have the higher maintaince, but as soon as you get in something nasty, you don't care about the easy oil changes and valve check.

For the $$$ your talking, I would deffintly buy two, three year old bikes. Otherwise you are compromising something.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:09 AM   #24
Grreatdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ TOM View Post
Only my opinion, riding is 80% the rider & 20% the bike
I used to say the same thing back when I only rode Yamahas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachedoutoffroad View Post
.... Still have the higher maintaince, but as soon as you get in something nasty, you don't care about the easy oil changes and valve check.....
Yep. Funny how when you are sweating and whipped from busting your ass down a miserable, rocky, almost vertical trail and you are still facing an even uglier climb back out you don't give a damn about oil changes and valve check intervals.

But then again, if you even have to ask about two bikes that are so entirely different I don't know if the KTM is the right choice. The 25% pavement would sell me on the EXC. But then I consider having to slide a feeler gauge under a valve a fair trade for the extra power and top shelf suspension. I learned a long time ago that no matter how long the service intervals are or who made the bike you still end up working on it every singe time you hammer one offroad.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulu7404 View Post
The 500 is NOT a typical dual sport.
And that's a shame, they should all be so awesome.

Quote:
WR owners say it is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Owners of slow bikes say that a lot and I completely disagree. Being the owner of a slow bike (KLR) and a fast bike (540EXC) I can say that the fast bike is more fun at any speed, especially speeds that the slow bike can't reach.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
But I need a DS, not a race bike. (My total solution would be a WR450R if Yamaha would ever make one.)
Gryphon, great post overall but there is no way Yamaha can make a WR450R. People keep forgetting that the WR250R is one cylinder from a four-cylinder Yamaha street bike, and actually detuned from its parent engine. That's why it's so reliable. The 450 is a purpose built dirt bike and if Yamaha tried to turn that engine into something street legal, it would be either much heavier or much slower and probably both.

Yamaha could make a WR450R from a clean sheet of paper, but it would not compete with a KTM for weight or engine performance. If you're just looking for a bigger, heavier, more powerful WR250R, that's a possibility.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:23 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
Gryphon, great post overall but there is no way Yamaha can make a WR450R. People keep forgetting that the WR250R is one cylinder from a four-cylinder Yamaha street bike, and actually detuned from its parent engine. That's why it's so reliable. The 450 is a purpose built dirt bike and if Yamaha tried to turn that engine into something street legal, it would be either much heavier or much slower and probably both.

Yamaha could make a WR450R from a clean sheet of paper, but it would not compete with a KTM for weight or engine performance. If you're just looking for a bigger, heavier, more powerful WR250R, that's a possibility.
I don't know, montesa...KTM is doing something similar with the "Freeride" model, aren't they? They don't really break down all the components from everything I've seen to date, but it's based on the DOHC 350EXC...just heavily tweaked down on the stress level...or at least so it appears...a 24hp rating would seem to confirm that. Everything I see on the WR450"F" indicates that it's a durable, reliable engine as it is. If Yamaha did a similar detune for max torque and power in the low revs, it seems like a possible candidate. Apparently the "clean sheet of paper" approach is kind of expensive, I guess as evidenced by the "stolen" cylinder from an older R1 on the WR250R. Still, the Japanese seem the least likely to think there's a market for this bike. I'm even amazed that KTM seems to be pursuing the Freeride model.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:38 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=Grreatdog;19712642]I used to say the same thing back when I only rode Yamahas.



Great line from an Orange point of view
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:46 PM   #29
Grreatdog
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Originally Posted by TNC View Post
...... I'm even amazed that KTM seems to be pursuing the Freeride model.
I am not amazed by the Freeride. For the hard core offroad dual sport rider it isn't all about power. Maybe not even mostly about power. Yes, I am the first one in line for big power for a road going, traveling sort of dual sport. As good as my 640E is offroad, it rarely even sees third gear on tough single track.

For a single track rider it is more about light weight, compact size and real offroad suspension. No one can argue that light weight and top shelf suspension on dual sports are two concepts utterly lost on the Japanese. But, KTM gets it. Hard core trail riding is the market they understand and flat out own.

And, to a guy with a plated 200 pound racer in the garage, the Freeride looks like a bullseye. My MXC is basically a place holder for a real 50 state legal light weight dual sport. I don't know if that will be the Freeride, the rumored Husky two stroke or something else. But that kind of bike will be in my garage for trails.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
I am not amazed by the Freeride. For the hard core offroad dual sport rider it isn't all about power. Maybe not even mostly about power. Yes, I am the first one in line for big power for a road going, traveling sort of dual sport. As good as my 640E is offroad, it rarely even sees third gear on tough single track.

For a single track rider it is more about light weight, compact size and real offroad suspension. No one can argue that light weight and top shelf suspension on dual sports are two concepts utterly lost on the Japanese. But, KTM gets it. Hard core trail riding is the market they understand and flat out own.

And, to a guy with a plated 200 pound racer in the garage, the Freeride looks like a bullseye. My MXC is basically a place holder for a real 50 state legal light weight dual sport. I don't know if that will be the Freeride, the rumored Husky two stroke or something else. But that kind of bike will be in my garage for trails.
I know a LOT of people in the snotty North East/Canada that are salivating over the Freeride.
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