I'm starting to get the anti-HD vibe

[marksbonneville]

Originally Posted by kraven

Well, I don't think of myself as self-righteous. I just think that all you tourists should really stop and think about your attitudes. You're on a public highway with other people who have just as much right as you. The BRP is a scenic highway built purposely so people can amble along at 35 or 45 and enjoy the views.
No one owes you anything on either road.

That's not being self-righteous. It's just seeing the world for what it is. I don't think that Harley wagon trains have any right blocking traffic and having Road Captains block intersections like they're a parade.
I also don't think that anyone should have to make way for a guy on a sporting machine.

You want a parade, buy a permit and do it downtown. You want a trackday, go to a track. Otherwise, ride and be polite, enjoy the BRP and the dragon, and accept that sometimes you can't ride balls out because there are other people on the planet.

That really is a good response thanks. I live close to a fantastic ride (Prescott Vly AZ to Jerome) and often pass cars and bikes who are going slow AND I have pulled over to let others pass me but I do need an occasional reminder that others are trying to enjoy the same road and I may need to mellow out sometimes.

[Cakeeater]

Originally Posted by FJ Fun

So, you went to South Dakota during Sturgis and you expected to be able to enjoy riding the roads there????
SRSLY????

Joe

yes, we went to sturgis...no, we did not expect to be able to do anything except sit in traffic. We were all surprised as how open the backroads were away from the towns. Lots of people trailer their rides there and putt putt around for ten miles in the afternoon. That said, we adopted our strategy of taking breaks to let the slowbies go ahead, which was the point of this discussion.

As to traffic at Sturgis, here's a twist: I took a 1600gt for a spin at the BMW demo tent. We go out in a group, take a couple of turns, and we are on empty roads going out of sturgis! I lay back, juice it, catch up my group, lay back, rinse repeat. Now this was midday on one fo the busiest days at Sturgis. Going thru the heart of downtown takes 40 minutes to paddle through town....but we were going pretty fast without much traffic by picking the right roads. But most people are there for beer and tits and music.

We all agreed that the riding, esp. there and back on two-laners, was fantastic.

Cakeeater

[Cakeeater]

Originally Posted by kraven

Well, I don't think of myself as self-righteous. I just think that all you tourists should really stop and think about your attitudes. You're on a public highway with other people who have just as much right as you. The BRP is a scenic highway built purposely so people can amble along at 35 or 45 and enjoy the views.
No one owes you anything on either road.

That's not being self-righteous. It's just seeing the world for what it is. I don't think that Harley wagon trains have any right blocking traffic and having Road Captains block intersections like they're a parade.
I also don't think that anyone should have to make way for a guy on a sporting machine.

You want a parade, buy a permit and do it downtown. You want a trackday, go to a track. Otherwise, ride and be polite, enjoy the BRP and the dragon, and accept that sometimes you can't ride balls out because there are other people on the planet.

Yeah, I agree.

I'm working in LA now just a stone's throw from Angeles Crest. Great road, but jeez I get freaked by the "sportriders" who can't ride worth shit. I talked to a CHIP yesterday at a starbucks. Three dead riders in last month on the Crest. All of them hauling ass and crashing. I stay away from the Crest mainly cuz I worry about gettting nailed by someone coming the other direction over the double-yellow.

Cakeeater

[JoeDuck]

Originally Posted by kraven

Arizona is not North Carolina, or TN. Nor is it the Federal 2 lane blacktop policed by the Parkway fuzz.

The lore that circulates in motorcycling circles that somehow because you're on a bike means you get to make it up as you go is both a good way to get killed and a good way to be a jackass.

It's nothing more than a sense of entitlement our community feels.

The BRP is about 1.4 miles from my house. I ride it all the time. I've seen a lot of bad wrecks. Most of them owe to this sense of entitlement people feel. Same for the dragon.

If someone is going too slow, pull over and chill for a few minutes. No one owes you anything on a scenic highway.

Funny you should mention TN - from their handbook -
"Slow-Moving Vehicles
It is against the law to drive slower than the posted minimum
speed under normal driving conditions. You may drive more
slowly than the minimum speed if you are driving in bad
weather, heavy traffic or on a bad road. If there is no posted
minimum speed, it is still against the law to drive so slowly
that you block traffic.
NOTE: You are considered to be driving a slow-moving
vehicle if you are traveling at a rate of speed that is 10 miles
per hour or more below the lawful maximum speed. If five or
more vehicles are lined up behind you, turn or pull off the
roadway as soon as you can do so safely. Slow drivers, who
block other traffic, cause many accidents."

Lets see what NC has to say:
"On the other
hand, driving below the posted speed limit can also be dangerous. If you must
drive slower, you should still observe the posted minimum speed limit. At
places where it is unsafe to pass, the slow driver forces other drivers to creep
along behind or take unnecessary risks while trying to pass. Very slow driving is
especially dangerous just after you have passed the crest of a hill or rounded a
curve. Faster-moving vehicles can crash into the slower vehicle before they can
slow down. For this reason, watch for slow-moving vehicles such as heavy trucks
or farm vehicles. If traffic is collecting behind you, it is wise to pull over to the
side of the road, stop and allow the vehicles to pass."

Both states agree that the slowpokes are asshats. May want to break out your drivers handbook and read up on all those law type things.

[Josephvman]

I've really never understood why anyone would have an issue with letting someone riding at a faster pace by, so maybe you can explain why it hurts so much. I don't have a problem with slow riders, but it truly pisses me off when they feel the need to go out of their way to make it difficult or impossible to pass. Why would you want to ride with someone who obviously wants to get around you, agitated on your back wheel?

Originally Posted by kraven

This is nothing but your sense of entitlement.
I see this all the time with out of towners who ride the BRP. "But this is the Parkway. I came to enjoy it. Everyone has to clear out of my way." No. No we don't.
The wings were probably doing the limit. Those are all public roads. No one is obliged to get out of your way and let you proceed at whatever pace you like.

If you want to ride fast, go do a track day. On public roads this is what you have to contend with and sometimes be subject to, so maybe adjust your worldview a bit.

No one owes you a clear line or a pulloff on a public road.

[scrannel]

Originally Posted by kraven

This is nothing but your sense of entitlement.
I see this all the time with out of towners who ride the BRP. "But this is the Parkway. I came to enjoy it. Everyone has to clear out of my way." No. No we don't.
The wings were probably doing the limit. Those are all public roads. No one is obliged to get out of your way and let you proceed at whatever pace you like.

If you want to ride fast, go do a track day. On public roads this is what you have to contend with and sometimes be subject to, so maybe adjust your worldview a bit.

No one owes you a clear line or a pulloff on a public road.

Beg to differ. On a bike it is so easy to make room for another rider to pass it's almost effortless. And BTW, may I suggest, you do not have a world view. You have a '"you view". See this on PCH in the Malibu area all the time on weekends when the Harley Herd blocks two north-bound lanes going below speed limits. Fortunately in CA it's legal to split lanes and get around ... entitled farts.

[davevv]

I think folks really need to define what they are calling "slow" drivers in these threads. Are you talking about someone doing the speed limit, under the limit, or maybe even over the limit but still not as fast as you want to ride? As far as I'm concerned, if someone is doing the limit or better, they have no obligation to go out of their way to let you by. For example, if I'm doing 75 in the left lane of a four lane interstate with a 70mph limit and passing a row of four or five semis when someone comes up behind me at 85, I will not squeeze in between the trucks or speed up so they can get by faster. Does it irritate them? Probably so, but it also irritates me that they're right on my ass when I'm already 5mph over the limit. And by the way, 5 over is where I usually am.

Having said that, conditions are not always the same. I happen to live in Texas and easing onto the shoulder of a two lane country road to let a faster vehicle pass is common. I do it all the time, even if I"m already over the limit. It's just common courtesy. But in those situations, the slower driver doesn't have to go out of his way to let the other driver past.

If we're talking about people driving under the speed limit for whatever reason, then to me, that is another ball game. They really should be paying attention and going out of their way to let faster traffic by.

But there seem to be a lot of riders who think that because they're on a motorcycle, they are entitled to ride at any speed they desire on any road. That's pure bullshit and you won't find it in any state's traffic laws. If you want to ride The Dragon like it's a race track, you're the one that's in the wrong and not the guy who's enjoying the scenery while driving at the speed limit. If you really want to ride fast and enjoy the limits of your bike, find a track day where it's safer for everyone.

[scrannel]

Originally Posted by davevv

I think folks really need to define what they are calling "slow" drivers in these threads.

Here, I'll define it for you: people going near or below the speed limit who, usually with their buddies, block the road keeping anyone else from passing. On the other hand, we are bikers, not Nash Rambler Drivers, and it's common courtesy to let another rider pass even if you think what you are doing is more than perfect.

[davevv]

Originally Posted by scrannel

Here, I'll define it for you: people going near or below the speed limit who, usually with their buddies, block the road keeping anyone else from passing. On the other hand, we are bikers, not Nash Rambler Drivers, and it's common courtesy to let another rider pass even if you think what you are doing is more than perfect.

When you say "near or below" I have to assume you're including someone like me who may be at the limit or normally 5 over and I can't agree with that. I don't expect everyone in front of me to risk getting a ticket or pull over to the side of the road and get out of my way just so I can enjoy going as fast as I want. And yes, there are times I enjoy pushing it a bit harder. For me, the speed limit is the tipping point. If they're at the limit or better, they're good in my book.

What I said was "if someone is doing the limit or better, they have no obligation to go out of their way to let you by". And I'll stand by that. But I'll also agree they have no right to "block the road keeping anyone else from passing". However, I don't agree that their mere presence on a lengthy section of road without passing zones is "blocking the road". I may not like it if I'm behind them, but they're doing nothing wrong. Under the limit? Hell yes, they need to actively search for a way to let others by.

And yeah, we're bikers (whatever that is supposed to imply), but the Rambler drivers have just as much right to the road as we do.

[Kamikuza]

Originally Posted by Ginger Beard

Holy hell man, how much do you think HD's cost?

Location: Japan. Nuff said.

[DynaSport]

Originally Posted by kraven

Well, I don't think of myself as self-righteous. I just think that all you tourists should really stop and think about your attitudes. You're on a public highway with other people who have just as much right as you. The BRP is a scenic highway built purposely so people can amble along at 35 or 45 and enjoy the views.
No one owes you anything on either road.

That's not being self-righteous. It's just seeing the world for what it is. I don't think that Harley wagon trains have any right blocking traffic and having Road Captains block intersections like they're a parade.
I also don't think that anyone should have to make way for a guy on a sporting machine.

You want a parade, buy a permit and do it downtown. You want a trackday, go to a track. Otherwise, ride and be polite, enjoy the BRP and the dragon, and accept that sometimes you can't ride balls out because there are other people on the planet.

You may not think of yourself as self righteous, but you either are or you are too lazy to read the thread or too ignorant to understand it. There are plenty of places on the BRP to stop and enjoy the view. There are also plenty of places where it is easy and safe to pull over for a mere few seconds and let someone behind you pass. Not doing one or the other is selfish. My riding my ride is not affecting their ability to enjoy the day. Their riding was impairing mine. Who is selfish?

[Harvey Krumpet]

I haven't read the whole thread, mobile chicanes are common over here too. Bikes, cars, campervans, well anything being piloted by somebody who has never bothered thinking about how they effect other road users or worse don't give a damn.

It's just a lack of consideration, courtesy & awareness. Sometimes just a lack of intelligence & an overgrown sense of self importance.
Avoid them, just like replying to an idiot, they will bring you down to their level. Blame the parents.

[Ginger Beard]

Originally Posted by kraven

Well, I don't think of myself as self-righteous. I just think that all you tourists should really stop and think about your attitudes. You're on a public highway with other people who have just as much right as you. The BRP is a scenic highway built purposely so people can amble along at 35 or 45 and enjoy the views.
No one owes you anything on either road.

That's not being self-righteous. It's just seeing the world for what it is. I don't think that Harley wagon trains have any right blocking traffic and having Road Captains block intersections like they're a parade.
I also don't think that anyone should have to make way for a guy on a sporting machine.

You want a parade, buy a permit and do it downtown. You want a trackday, go to a track. Otherwise, ride and be polite, enjoy the BRP and the dragon, and accept that sometimes you can't ride balls out because there are other people on the planet.

Yep.





I find it funny that people treating the road like a track have the nerve to get mad at people treating a scenic byway like a scenic byway. I get it if someone is riding below the speed limit but at or right above the limit ? Pure selfishness. No one on a public road is obligated to ensure your ability to treat the road as a public race course nor should they be. Those that purposely block traffic while riding under the limit ? They are equally selfish.

[Ginger Beard]

Originally Posted by Kamikuza

Location: Japan. Nuff said.

I don't see a huge price difference as far as the market is concerned. Honda VTX1300 is 1,354,000 yen and a Sportster 1200 is 1,340,000 yen. Seems pretty competitively priced unless we are comparing a fully loaded touring HD and a 250cc Japanese bike.


Are the HD's heavily taxed after sale or during registration ?

[fastdadio]

OK ladies, I'll try to make this short. The OP got his panties in a bunch over a couple of fun blockers, and started an anti-HD thread. But it was actually a couple of old wings that were blocking his fun. We all seem to agree that it's not the bike but the riders mentality that leads to this all too common occurance. I see it like this, 75% of american drivers out there are a bunch of inconsiderate, self absorbed, distracted, selfish, non-driving assholes. Not only driving motorcycles, but every type of motor vehicle out there. Sad that we have one of the best highway systems in the world, with a majority population too unskilled and ignorant to use it, at times, to the point of being dangerous or deadly. As long as people in this country continue to consider driving as their "right" instead of the privilage that it is, this trend will never change and in my opinion will only get worse. Proper driver training is the key. We don't have that here. Our drivers training is a joke when compared to others. So, until changes are made in that direction, expect lots more of the same. And another thing, I really don't give a shit if you like my brand of motorcycle or not. I didn't buy it for you to like. So, STFU about it already.