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Old 10-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #16
RocketJohn
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You don't want a Jeep, they are wayyyy too junky!

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:08 AM   #17
debueller
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I’ve been seriously considering a two-door ’13 Rubicon with the Pentistar and the 6spd manual.


We test drove one a couple of miles and for a Wrangler, the engine really felt strong. I really think I would like driving and traveling in it, and the mild off road excursions we plan to do with it would be very enjoyable.


For those who have more info/opinions please keep ‘em comimg!!
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:36 AM   #18
Bueller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketJohn View Post
You don't want a Jeep, they are wayyyy too junky!

Agreed. They're referred to as mall crawlers for a reason.




Having fun in MOAB with mine right now. Off to re-run the Klondike Bluff trail today on what might be the greatest expanse of slick rock I've ever seen. The destination is an overlook of a particularly nice section of Arches National Park.




Yea, Jeeps suck because they like get bad mileage and stuff

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:20 PM   #19
broncobowsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayduke357 View Post
I was going to pull the trigger on a 2012 jeep wrangler unlimited manual today, however, been reading some problems with the Manual Trans. I have read most of the forms but most seem to be operator error. Anyone with real word experience with the 2012 manual?
Read the replys with caution. Most of the higher mileage references will be with the old 3.8 V6, the gutless POS from the minivan. I forget when (I think 2011?) the Jeep got a completely new engine that I have been told runs way better then the old one. And all this is completely different then the true old school 4.0 inline six. I recall that there are differences between the transmissions each time there is a change in engines as well. So filter carefully
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by broncobowsher View Post
Read the replys with caution. Most of the higher mileage references will be with the old 3.8 V6, the gutless POS from the minivan. I forget when (I think 2011?) the Jeep got a completely new engine that I have been told runs way better then the old one. And all this is completely different then the true old school 4.0 inline six. I recall that there are differences between the transmissions each time there is a change in engines as well. So filter carefully
Funny how the 3.8 is referred to by some folks as gutless compared to the 4.0 it replaced, yet it makes more horsepower, more torque, and gets better mileage. On the way out here to Moab at the top of last week I buried the speedo on flat ground at an altitude of 5000 feet. Not sure what you expect a Wrangler to do, and admittedly the new 3.6 makes a lot more horsepower. But that extra horsepower is at high RPM. It would be nice to have, but it isn't a necessity.

Having owned 5 Wranglers - including one 4 liter TJ - I find my current 2009 Rubicon to have similar performance to my previously owned TJ, and I know my rubi would handily beat my friend's TJ Sahara in a drag race. His TJ came with 30" tires and 3.73 gears. My Rubicon came with 255 (32.5") tires and 4.10 gears, so there's no real overall gearing advantage.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Funny how the 3.8 is referred to by some folks as gutless compared to the 4.0 it replaced, yet it makes more horsepower, more torque, and gets better mileage. On the way out here to Moab at the top of last week I buried the speedo on flat ground at an altitude of 5000 feet. Not sure what you expect a Wrangler to do, and admittedly the new 3.6 makes a lot more horsepower. But that extra horsepower is at high RPM. It would be nice to have, but it isn't a necessity.

Having owned 5 Wranglers - including one 4 liter TJ - I find my current 2009 Rubicon to have similar performance to my previously owned TJ, and I know my rubi would handily beat my friend's TJ Sahara in a drag race. His TJ came with 30" tires and 3.73 gears. My Rubicon came with 255 (32.5") tires and 4.10 gears, so there's no real overall gearing advantage.
I suspect you already know this, but with a Jeep, the numbers do not tell the whole story. The I-6 makes 70% of its peak torque at idle. Sitting in traffic, you can creep forward in second gear without touching the gas. So the 3.8 making "more" torque is misleading.

My '05 Rubicon is a very flexible vehicle - from inner city DC traffic to very rural California living, it has been fantastic. I came close to trading it on a '12 4-door Rubicon, but luckily the dealer tried to severely low-ball me on the trade, and I could look him in the eye and say "not gonna happen" knowing I already had a Jeep I loved.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spezjag View Post
I suspect you already know this, but with a Jeep, the numbers do not tell the whole story. The I-6 makes 70% of its peak torque at idle. Sitting in traffic, you can creep forward in second gear without touching the gas. So the 3.8 making "more" torque is misleading.

My '05 Rubicon is a very flexible vehicle - from inner city DC traffic to very rural California living, it has been fantastic. I came close to trading it on a '12 4-door Rubicon, but luckily the dealer tried to severely low-ball me on the trade, and I could look him in the eye and say "not gonna happen" knowing I already had a Jeep I loved.
Not true. Nothing wrong with the I6, and certainly nothing wrong with a TJ. But this should put that widely believed misnomer to bed:



The big difference between the "feel" of the I-6 4.0 and the V-6 3.8 is the V6's electronic throttle, which makes it feel a bit more sluggish because the throttle is more linear than the I-6. If I were to have any complaint about the V-6 it would be that it has a bit too much flywheel effect for my taste for every day driving. But it wasn't quite built for that, was it? That same flywheel effect has been wonderful out here this week in all of the rock crawling. In combination with the 4:1 transfer case and 6-speed transmission it provides fantastic engine braking and has been able to idle up almost everything in 2nd or 3rd gear. I spent a lot of time when I first got out here going down to first for climbing shelves or onto big fins until I realized I just didn't have to.

Do I think the 3.8 is a great engine? Not really. It's had more than its share of oil consumption issues over the years and a few other glitches. But it is the last of the "easy to work on" generation of engines (pushrods, cam in block, etc.). I've considered trading my '09 on a '12 with the new engine several times, but at least for the time being am glad I kept the '09 with the 3.8. The '12's have gotten a lot of bad press with cylinder head issues and other items. I'm confident they'll be great when the bugs are worked out, but Chrysler has barely crept out of the bailout/repurchase days. My belief is the '12 Wranglers were developed during the time when Chrysler was absolutely cash crunched, and that may have had an effect on the build quality by squeezing suppliers and cutting manufacturing costs wherever possible. I think the '13's and even the '14's will continue to get better under new ownership, and eventually I may pull the trigger. My '09 hasn't been perfect, but I believe (or at least hope) I have the bugs worked out of it at this point. I'll just keep it and drive the wheels off of it until said time I think it's good to take the leap of faith (come on diesel!), and much like putting a few years between one's self and any addiction I find I don't miss the grand ol' I-6 nearly as much as I thought I would
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 AM   #23
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Went with a 2013 four door Auto.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:36 AM   #24
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Enjoy!
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:27 PM   #25
maydaymike
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I bought mine last weekend. 2012 w/3.6, 6 speed, 3.73 gears. Today, the mail jeep wheels were replaced with a leveling kit and 33's.



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Old 10-12-2012, 04:27 PM   #26
longtallsally
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Well, you already go it, so it's a foregone conclusion, but I'll throw $.02 in. I had a YJ for 14 years. Loved it. When the JK came out, we drove a Rubicon one with the 6 speed. Plenty nice, but too much cash for too little power, and the plasticy interior. I just couldn't justify $35k for axles, lockers, and T case surrounded by mediocrity.

Fast forward to last year and with baby here and the like, we needed a new family machine for re-entry to the States from Euroworthless. After a slew of research I ordered only my second ever new car to the exact spec we wanted. Getting to the point, we ordered the 6 speed (on principle in my book).

11k miles and nothing but smiles.

Wanna take the dirt bike?



No problem.

Wanna tow a camper?



Doesn't break a sweat.

Wanna go off road? And I don't mean mamby pamby off road, I mean the machine's namesake...



Just a couple dings here and there, air up and drive 70-75 back in AC comfort listening to satellite radio.

I'm 6'7" and I can fit in the seat behind me with the driver's seat in my position. Our 100+lb Rhodesian Ridgeback is swimming in space in the back. We've taken a passenger, the dog, the baby, my wife and I and been perfectly comfy driving all day.

The craziest part of it all? The fuel economy. Before the very mild lift, armor, winch and such and going up and over Sonora Pass I got 23 mpg. In town I can still get 19 (with the ~300lbs of armor and winch) if I drive like a grandpa and 18 or just under if I'm more interested in keeping up with traffic. Generally on the freeway at 70 mph we get 20+ mpg.

The break in drive was 3100 miles cross country with 400 being off road. Now a few months later, we did one of the toughest trails in the country with stock tires, and a very mild lift. I can't say enough nice things about it.

So again, back to the tranny, I love it. I skip gears, coast, or sometimes give an Italian tune up. Aside from the throw being about as long as a stroke from an Egyptian boat of Jesus' era, it's just fine.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:24 PM   #27
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Just got home a few minutes ago from our Moab trip. 4500 + miles in a little less than two weeks beating my 09 Rubicon to death on slickrock, lots of touring through Utah and Arizona, and it performed flawlessly the entire time. Managed a high of 23 mpg at higher altitudes with the cruise locked at 65 mph, around 20 mpg otherwise.

When I'm done with this rubicon my next vehicle will be a rubicon. That'll be wrangler #6. Hoping for a stateside diesel in the next couple of years.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #28
debueller
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Info on 10th Anniversary Rubi released:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/inf...ed-202176.html
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #29
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I've loved the newer 4 door wranglers but the prices on them just seems insane. You would also think a baby diesel motor would be the ticket for these to help with mileage and torque.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:04 PM   #30
SR1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Well, you already go it, so it's a foregone conclusion, but I'll throw $.02 in. I had a YJ for 14 years. Loved it. When the JK came out, we drove a Rubicon one with the 6 speed. Plenty nice, but too much cash for too little power, and the plasticy interior. I just couldn't justify $35k for axles, lockers, and T case surrounded by mediocrity.

Fast forward to last year and with baby here and the like, we needed a new family machine for re-entry to the States from Euroworthless. After a slew of research I ordered only my second ever new car to the exact spec we wanted. Getting to the point, we ordered the 6 speed (on principle in my book).

11k miles and nothing but smiles.

Wanna take the dirt bike?



No problem.

Wanna tow a camper?



Doesn't break a sweat.

Wanna go off road? And I don't mean mamby pamby off road, I mean the machine's namesake...



Just a couple dings here and there, air up and drive 70-75 back in AC comfort listening to satellite radio.

I'm 6'7" and I can fit in the seat behind me with the driver's seat in my position. Our 100+lb Rhodesian Ridgeback is swimming in space in the back. We've taken a passenger, the dog, the baby, my wife and I and been perfectly comfy driving all day.

The craziest part of it all? The fuel economy. Before the very mild lift, armor, winch and such and going up and over Sonora Pass I got 23 mpg. In town I can still get 19 (with the ~300lbs of armor and winch) if I drive like a grandpa and 18 or just under if I'm more interested in keeping up with traffic. Generally on the freeway at 70 mph we get 20+ mpg.

The break in drive was 3100 miles cross country with 400 being off road. Now a few months later, we did one of the toughest trails in the country with stock tires, and a very mild lift. I can't say enough nice things about it.

So again, back to the tranny, I love it. I skip gears, coast, or sometimes give an Italian tune up. Aside from the throw being about as long as a stroke from an Egyptian boat of Jesus' era, it's just fine.

Well, I guess there's not much more for you to say...I was gonna as your thoughts, ha ha!

I just ordered a 2013 Sahara Unlimited with the 3.73, limited slip, hard top, max tow, saddle leather. I have a newborn and that's my first thought (comfort, protection, ease of use for mom and I).

I nearly bought a 2012, but it had the "bad" head S/N so I opted to wait for a 2013 to be delivered here in Korea. As long as my family can put up with my Korea-dinky-car for 4 months, we'll be in the Unlimited in say March. I feel pretty good about this vehicle selection.
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