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Old 10-04-2012, 09:29 PM   #196
Midnullarbor
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The rise and rise of front wheel drive for cars has definitely pushed "FWD" towards the Front meaning, over past decades.

In the past, "4WD" simply meant that the vehicle could access drive to all wheels whenever the driver chose to actuate that ~ since everything was actually part-time 4WD.
Then came the Range Rover, with full-time all wheel drive.
Then the so-called 4WD's with 2WD but automatic on-demand 4WD (which usually wasn't too wonderful, in practice).

The names and meanings have gotten fuzzy.
My own preference would be : AWD for full-time drive to all wheels; and 4WD for all those part-time 4WD's and "on-demand" 4WD's.
But it is getting more difficult to draw a dividing line, for some of the on-demanders are getting quite good at providing decent all wheel traction (that comes into action before you bog down . . . not after you are in trouble) thanks to sophisticated electronically controlled clutch systems.

I suspect that the use of the term 4WD is going in full circle, and is coming back towards "looking big and tough and high ground-clearince" . . . even when the vehicle is just a 2WD that is faking it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:38 AM   #197
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I was shopping for a travel trailer last year and stopped at a local dealer just to check what they had. I pretty much had my mind made up on what I wanted, but wanted to cover all the local dealers to make sure there wasn't something I liked better available. This one sales lady who introduced herself as the "Top Rated Sales Person for 5 Years Running" was taking me around the lot. We got to one model that I was looking hard at. I was looking at the axles and the general weld job of the frame and she comes up to me and states that these models come with aluminum wheels. I replied that I liked that, then she went on to state that the reason for aluminum wheels was to make the brakes run cooler. I was shocked that she said that to me. I then asked her why the manufacter undersized the trailer brakes so bad that they had to do that. She didn't have any response to that. As I was making my way to the exit she asked if there was anything else she could do to earn my business. I told her that she needed to learn more about trailer brakes before I would ever come back. And no I didn't buy a trailer there.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:42 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnullarbor View Post
...

The names and meanings have gotten fuzzy.
Quite clear to me.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:13 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by slide View Post
Read his post. He clearly thought the sales chick's referral to FWD meant Front Wheel Drive because he later states that the F150 had either rear wheel drive or all wheel drive.

In fact, the F150 does not have all wheel drive but rather four wheel drive as an option.

He's wrong and the sales chick is right and he posted as if he's more knowing than she is. He's a fool twice over.
Hey Slide, where did you go?
You were here, loud & clear, slinging shit, telling me I was wrong. Where are you now?

Come on, tell me again how FWD = 4x4.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #200
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
She didn't say "FWD" she said "Front Wheel Drive". And, you are wrong.
Besides, as I said originally, "She asked me if I wanted AWD or FWD." Are you suggesting that she asked me if I wanted four wheel drive or all wheel drive? No, she asked me if I wanted front wheel drive (which they don't offer) or all wheel drive (which they don't offer).

Here's the FWD page from Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FWD

The first entry is "Front-wheel drive, a common method of vehicle propulsion."
Way down on the list is "An archaic term for four-wheel drive (4WD or AWD is preferred today)."

Don't believe Wikipedia? Here's a link to Chevy's website, comparing their cars to other cars:
http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/compa...9960&year=2012

Look at the "2012 Chevrolet Traverse FWD" The model name of the car has FWD in it. Later in the listing, it clearly shows that the car is front wheel drive.

Perhaps in 1950 FWD was four wheel drive, but it hasn't been used that way in decades. The saleschick has her head up her ass.
This is why you are supposed to spell out abbreviations the first time you use them like this: She asked if I wanted front wheel drive (FWD) or all wheel drive (AWD). Then subsequently you can use the abbreviation to save space and everybody understands what you mean.

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Old 10-06-2012, 08:54 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by ChadHahn View Post
This is why you are supposed to spell out abbreviations the first time you use them like this: She asked if I wanted front wheel drive (FWD) or all wheel drive (AWD). Then subsequently you can use the abbreviation to save space and everybody understands what you mean.

Chad
Or you can use standard abbreviations that everybody understands, at least the people in the United States of America (USA).

Are you suggesting that I'm the first guy to say AWD & FWD? Seriously?
Do we still need to spell out DOHC (dual overhead cam)? ABS (anti lock brakes)? FIAT (Fit It Again Tony)?

She works at a dealership, selling trucks. I expect her to use the vocabulary from this century.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #203
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'xactly.

FWD: front wheel drive
RWD: rear wheel drive
AWD: all wheel drive
4WD: four wheel drive

Now, maybe to confuse:

FWD: front wheel drive
RWD: rear wheel drive
AWD: all wheel drive (center differential allowing power front and/or rear, but not a locking t-case)
4WD: four wheel drive (t-case locks front and rear drivelines, but only drivelines...so one front and one rear may spin if no locking differential)
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:23 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnullarbor View Post
I suspect that the use of the term 4WD is going in full circle, and is coming back towards "looking big and tough and high ground-clearince" . . . even when the vehicle is just a 2WD that is faking it.
Yep, back in the good old days, FWD stood for exactly that; i.e. "looking big and tough and high ground-clearance".

Whenever I saw those vehicles though, I always knew that FWD really meant F... Wit Driver.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:31 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnullarbor View Post

I suspect that the use of the term 4WD is going in full circle, and is coming back towards "looking big and tough and high ground-clearince" . . . even when the vehicle is just a 2WD that is faking it.
No, if the rear wheels turn under power but the front wheels do not it's a 2WD. Period.

4WD has nothing to do with stance or ground clearance.

Sometimes a high-clearance 2WD with a lot of suspension travel is the most appropriate tool for the job. 4WDs are good for crawling and covering rough terrain slowly. Prerunners are good for hauling ass across the desert at 100+.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:37 AM   #206
Midnullarbor
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Sorry, I didn't make myself quite clear.

I was harking back to the old days before the watershed event (about 1970?) when the Range Rover first arrived. Before that time, there was a huge and obvious gulf between ordinary cars [which looked . . . ordinary] and 4WD's which were "trucks" in comparison [in looks, ride, performance, and handling] and were at a glance "big and tough and high ground-clearance".

Yes, after the Range Rover, it took a while for lower and softer 4WD's to become widespread. Nowadays there are plenty of "apparent 4WD's" with just 2WD . . . as FWD or RWD (am I allowed to use the term RWD?).
And apart from being rather too heavy for sandy terrain, they do have a certain amount going for them ~ especially the higher ground-clearance.

Here my complaint is that, good as yer average car is in so many ways now . . . they do all have woefully low clearance, in order to have a sporty appearance. The alleged benefits of low clearance are (a) lower air resistance/drag ~ which is true but largely irrelevant since low-speed urban driving is the typical actual usage, and (b) lower CofGrav. for faster cornering ~ which is again true but rather misleading, since when you actually calculate the added cornering-speed potential gained through dropping the clearance/CofGravity by two inches . . . the potential benefit is only a "poofteenth".
But marketing hype rules all.

As owners of old Ford pickups knew, for commercial [and landowner's] usage, you can get the job done 99% of the time with 2WD + moderately wide wheels. When it turned muddy, then 4WD took you only a bit further before you got bogged.
Of course . . . off-roading/recreational usage is another matter.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:38 AM   #207
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Thumbs down

FWD, AWD, RWD...honestly, most of us don't give a shit.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:54 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by ddavidv View Post
FWD, AWD, RWD...honestly, most of us don't give a shit.

Most of us just prefer 2 wheels,........
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #209
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I once had a Nissan Hardbody 2wd. Went places with it. /thread
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:24 AM   #210
ChadHahn
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Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
Or you can use standard abbreviations that everybody understands, at least the people in the United States of America (USA).

Are you suggesting that I'm the first guy to say AWD & FWD? Seriously?
Do we still need to spell out DOHC (dual overhead cam)? ABS (anti lock brakes)? FIAT (Fit It Again Tony)?

She works at a dealership, selling trucks. I expect her to use the vocabulary from this century.
That's the point, we were all confused by your use of FWD to mean four wheel drive when that is normally used to abbreviate front wheel drive. So not everybody in America understands your abbreviations.

Chad
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