ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #31
WB81 OP
ADV wanna-bee
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA, Terra, Milky Way Galaxy
Oddometer: 30
Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper View Post
[...]

It's also good to know that you are much more likely to encounter sand in a right hander (US), than a left hander.

This didn't sink in until I hit a nice gravel patch on an otherwise perfectly clean road right before Aspen. I was just finishing a 500 mile day trip and had some pleasantries with physics. Had to turn around to see what made both my tires slip a bit.

Awesome advise!


And I'll get back to my original post. Yes, public roads are not race tracks. I still believe they should at least be somewhat clean of debris.

Got an off-road bike but I'm running into more trouble on paved roads than with a sports bike.


I swear, whatever I do on two wheels - I always seem to be doing it ALL wrong.


WB81 screwed with this post 10-04-2012 at 03:22 PM Reason: a --> an
WB81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #32
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 4,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by WB81 View Post
Yes, public roads are not race tracks.

I still believe they should at least be somewhat clean of debris.
__________________
2004 DR650: 59,658 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:54 AM   #33
hooliken
Awesome is a flavor
 
hooliken's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Smithfield, VA
Oddometer: 2,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by WB81 View Post
Yes, public roads are not race tracks. I still believe they should at least be somewhat clean of debris.
^^^This^^^ Is not a good mindset for riding. Especially if you tend to gravitate towards back roads.

Ride long enough and you will lose the front, the rear, and both tires together. Only seat time is going to show you how a bike is going to react when you lose traction.

Motorcycles do not crash on their own. Remove the soccer mom pulling out in front of you in traffic and most crashes you see are riders either riding beyond their skill level or riding beyond the capabilities of the bike. Unless traction is completely compromised a bike will be able to continue turning even when there is a brief loss of traction, unless of course you are already riding near or at the limit of grip.

Thankfully I made it out of my early years riding even when, many times, I rode way beyond a "sensible velocity" on the street.
__________________
"People in this country sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell
2007 950R Super Enduro
2005 450EXC
hooliken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:46 AM   #34
Uncle Pollo
happy cachiporra
 
Uncle Pollo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Albuquerque, Neue Messico
Oddometer: 47,182
Slow in fast out.
Uncle Pollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:52 AM   #35
Uncle Pollo
happy cachiporra
 
Uncle Pollo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Albuquerque, Neue Messico
Oddometer: 47,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by tire joe View Post
You need to slow down and learn how to ride before you get hurt.
Scanning the road ahead. We all have crashed for outrunning our line of sight.
Uncle Pollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:56 AM   #36
KX50002
NooB, my ass
 
KX50002's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: NEPA
Oddometer: 1,421
Ride in the dirt, and learn what to do when the bike gets "loose"

And like others have said, slow down a bit.
__________________
SOTGMOTT Some Of The Gear Most Of The Time
KX50002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:51 AM   #37
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,107
Its not a lot of fun, but if you assume there is or could be sand in every turn, you are much less likely to crash, as opposed to thinking turns are clear unless you see something.

On a track, I suppose you could assume the surface is good, and would know what its like after going around once, leaving out some spill from someone else on the track.

On the street, there could be anything in/on the road.
A LOT of people get in trouble assuming the road is clear and clean, or even that a turn does not tighten up.
Just how much you push it sets the risk level, and in some situations, you can screw up a little and get away with it, in other situations, it could be deadly to do so.
Everyone makes these calls and sets the risk level, even if they don't realize it.

In this case, if traffic was very light, sight lines were good other then the sand, and you can go wide or even run off the road without impacting anything, and you are geared up and do not mind damage to the bike, you can push it if you dare, but with more traffic, guard rails, trees and rocks, drop offs, maybe not.

I rarely wear much gear, so I do NOT push it much, I do not want to be sliding down the road, so I inspect the road surface VERY closely all the time, and even doing that, I do not push the limits in turns.
If I geared up, I know I would push it much more, since you are likely to walk away in many situations.
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:40 AM   #38
KX50002
NooB, my ass
 
KX50002's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: NEPA
Oddometer: 1,421
Incidentally, my only crash on the street was about 25 years ago (my own fault) doing a stoppie and didn't see the black sand in the parking lot. Front end washed out in the sand at about 3 mph, I scratched my new helmet and bruised my ego.
Sand can be nasty stuff.
__________________
SOTGMOTT Some Of The Gear Most Of The Time
KX50002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:44 AM   #39
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Don't square off (outside to inside to outside) corners where the nasty little spherical gems abide. Stay in the car tire tracks on the road, The little nasties gather in the middle of each lane..
This is good advise.

Also, use the right hand track on left hand turns so you don't hang into the oncoming lane.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #40
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
assume there is or could be sand in every turn, you are much less likely to crash, as opposed to thinking turns are clear unless you see something.
This.

I've ridden The High Road everytime I've been to New Mexico.

It's always dirty in places. Some of the tight turns have dips and bumps that will bottom your suspension at both ends on a sportsbike.

It's not what I would call a fast road. It's a fun road, but it's dirty and bumpy and has several villages along its length.

OP, slow down. Learn the road. Be smooth. All will be fine.

Many times when I hit sand in a turn, the bike simply wiggles a bit and I roll on through. I had the front end tuck one time in some "chip-seal" chat in The Ozarks. I kept looking through the turn and was able to recover.

If you're running wide, across the yellow, on right-handers, you're simply riding too fast for conditions or for your skill. I've run wide in a bad way on right-handers twice. Once in Utah on UT-95 and once in Arkansas on AR-12. Both times I ran out of ground clearance with my Guzzi Sportsbike. They happened only a month appart. Luckily no cars in the oncoming lane That was a simple message to me to slow it down and not over-ride the bike or the road.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #41
Aussijussi
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Finland-Australia
Oddometer: 1,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
Post the video.

Pulling the bike bolt upright and subsequently running off the road seems like a MAJOR over reaction given what you describe, but maybe the video will say something else.

I recently hit some sand in a hard right hander in a valley that was shaded so I couldn't see it. The whole bike shifted 3" to the left and kept on going holding the same line.

Not that you shouldn't be careful about gravel/sand on the road, but it is easy to over react to as well. In fact, I suspect that many "sand in a corner" downs were caused more by the riders over reaction to it than the sand itself.
I had the same thing happened to me couple of days ago. At the same time i saw the gravel, the bike slid sideways, but the patch of gravel or sand wasnt all that wide, so the tyres hooked up again. I've had the same situation few times before, never come off, yet, because of it. It's over in a fraction of second, so as long as you dont start grabbing either of the brakes, you should be right. The roads that i ride on, are fairly rough, so i am always on a look out for the 'roller bearings'. Here again the 'Ride Dirt' mantra holds true. It's a different story if the whole lane is covered in sand, just hope no one is coming the other way, when that occurs
Aussijussi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #42
Snapper
Beastly Adventurer
 
Snapper's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Oddometer: 2,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by WB81 View Post
This didn't sink in until I hit a nice gravel patch on an otherwise perfectly clean road right before Aspen. I was just finishing a 500 mile day trip and had some pleasantries with physics. Had to turn around to see what made both my tires slip a bit.

Awesome advise!
Glad to help... sand is only one of unique risks, here's a few more.

Compared to left handers (or same corner taken as a left hander), right handers (in the US) are:

-Always blinder
-Always tighter
-Much more likely to encounter an opposing cage crossing the double yellow
-And if you fook up (ie, go down) could result in instant death/dismemberment from opposing traffic.

Don't fook with right handers.
__________________
Lateral G Junkie
Fear Deer
Snapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014