Final Drive Experience/Thoughts

[Mr. Cob]

Originally Posted by twintwin

The same question that I was asking me one year ago, and I came to this answer: L.L., as I was reaching the limit of the front MC tire under braking and handling in the curves, especially when it was raining.

Howdy twintwin,

That looks like a nice setup, who builds it, what does it cost, is it a bolt on deal or is other work needed to install the LL? Details please, thanks.

[Strong Bad]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cob

Howdy twintwin,

That looks like a nice setup, who builds it, what does it cost, is it a bolt on deal or is other work needed to install the LL? Details please, thanks.

Indeed it looks real nice, details would be really great if you don't mind.

[AceRph]

[twintwin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cob

Howdy twintwin,

That looks like a nice setup, who builds it, what does it cost, is it a bolt on deal or is other work needed to install the LL? Details please, thanks.

Still project in the making, but the L.L. is finally put together and on the GS (R1150GSA). Now the bike will travel, in the coming days, to Claude for a sub-frame fabrication, and get attached to a chair bought used, but also built by Claude.

L.L.+ 15" rim, brand EZS, cost (shipping including to the US) $3000, a couple BMW OEM parts need some alterations, but nothing major. I was on my own (with a good friend) to put together the L.L., so he took us quite a while, but EZS was very responsive and gave us advices along the way. Forgot to mention that you get the L.L. in part with no instructions so with patience and many email and phone call to EZS, every thing worked out just fine.

My friend, actually his wife has a R1150R with a EZS L.L. and sidecar since 4 years already and they are very satisfied with the quality of the product so far and vey happy with the handling of the rig. So I did the plunge after seeing the product first hand. I do not have feedback yet on the handling, and difference with my R1100GS rig with Dedome front mod, but I bet that the car tire in the front will make a huge improvement in braking and handling. I will start a new thread as soon as the rig will come back from Claude, and discuss the building of the L.L. and my feeling with this new front end.

The R1150R EZS rig, not even one mile away from my place, so I spent many hours studying its L.L. before ordering mine.
The L.L. for the GS is the same than for the R, except 8 cm longer. And I put a different front tire, car tire 165/80/15, the one on the R, M.C. tire 175/55/15 from a scooter Yamaha Tmax 500.

[Mr. Cob]

Howdy twintwin,

Thanks for the info and please keep us up dated on this project.

[jaydmc]

We are the USA importer for EZS and have used these front ends, they work out well. We can also make a similar front end in house if a person wants to run the stock front wheel. You can see how we build these in the vendors section in the F800GS post.
One thing that can be done when you do go to the link front end as the "A" arm for the front end is now fixed it can be used as a pick up point for the upper front mount.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793

[Strong Bad]

So Jay how, about using the same "car tire wheel & tire combo as you did for me on my tug and tub for the front with a LL??

[Square4]

Twintwin; when do you expect to have your rig completed and ready to ride? It will be very informative to find out what your experience is for this conversion both the advantages and disadvantages for riding streets, gravel roads and mountain fire roads (that are steep, rutted and rocky). Of course, this will also include dry, wet, muddy and snowy road conditions. Since you are having Claude build the chair, are you going to put on a torsion bar?

Steve

[twintwin]

Originally Posted by Square4

Twintwin; when do you expect to have your rig completed and ready to ride? It will be very informative to find out what your experience is for this conversion both the advantages and disadvantages for riding streets, gravel roads and mountain fire roads (that are steep, rutted and rocky). Of course, this will also include dry, wet, muddy and snowy road conditions. Since you are having Claude build the chair, are you going to put on a torsion bar?

Steve

The GSA went to Claude yesterday and the rig should be ready early spring. So you have time to plan a visit in the N.E. and I will gladly give you the rig for a spin. I have no idea how the rig, with the L.L. will perform under all the conditions you mention, but I guess it will depend what tire you will have on the rear. This is not an Ural, so forget the steep, rutted, rocky mountain fire roads with mud and snow! There are so many other factors that will affect the handling of the sidecar, shocks, general set up, sway bar, ...So I do not know how the new front end will fit in all these parameters. But I'm looking definitively for more grip in the twisties and under wet condition, reasons I went for the L.L. and I hope a great improvement from my current sidecar (picture below for those who do not it already)
BTW, yes I have a sway bar on the new GSA rig.

[Square4]

Twintwin; so is the tug in the picture of your current rig the one that you modified to put on the LL? Just wondering since if you used a new tug and still had this rig, it would be a good way to compare the performance of the LL versus the current set up.

Steve

[davebig]

Yes Twintwin since you helped me shorten the a-frame on my GS I'm wondering if the LL steers easier than your Dedone trail reduction ? Claude thought mine steered as well as any of them and leaving the fork angle stock seem requires less front spring than the other trail reducers.I'm waiting for one of Strokers wheels to finish the job.DB

[claude]

Originally Posted by davebig

Yes Twintwin since you helped me shorten the a-frame on my GS I'm wondering if the LL steers easier than your Dedone trail reduction ? Claude thought mine steered as well as any of them and leaving the fork angle stock seem requires less front spring than the other trail reducers.I'm waiting for one of Strokers wheels to finish the job.DB

The leading link addition will be a good thing although a simple trail reducer, either the Dedome method or the replacement bridge method, is not a bad thing either.
Dave, when you add stroker's wheel you will be reducing your trail a little more yet. The tire used is a 135r15 which is if I recall is around 23" in rolling diameter.

The idea behind Twin Twin's leading link is to get more rubber on the ground up front (165r15 tire). This is a good thing especially with the GS based outfits. Undesteer should be reduced at speed in left handers. Tire wear up fron twill certainly be better and with an economicaly priced tire.

We plan to build a few more leading links this winter that will also use the165 tires. These will be built in such a way as to allow the same tire and wheel to be used on all three corners of the outfit. The idea is to make things better for the serious sidecarist and global tourers. Not sure if we will be retaining the tele lever for the lower steering pivot or not. It is the easier way out but there are alternatives that have positives also.

To be totally candid it is quite tempting top just go center hub and be done with it. If we do go that diection then the tele lever will certainly be eliminated.

The EZS front end that Twin Twin got came direct from EZS. It is a well built leading link.

As far a steering ease goes that is a product of trail reducion when under way. At rest or at very slow parking lot speeds steering effort with larger tires can increase. However, the 165 size tire as well as those smaller than it seem to be just fine compared to the outfits with much wider tires up front.

[sdpc2]

has finally made it to ADVrider, as it is her rig that twintwin came and took MANY pictures of.

I too am looking forward to completion of his new rig.

sdc


My friend, actually his wife has a R1150R with a EZS L.L. and sidecar since 4 years already and they are very satisfied with the quality of the product so far and vey happy with the handling of the rig. So I did the plunge after seeing the product first hand. I do not have feedback yet on the handling, and difference with my R1100GS rig with Dedome front mod, but I bet that the car tire in the front will make a huge improvement in braking and handling. I will start a new thread as soon as the rig will come back from Claude, and discuss the building of the L.L. and my feeling with this new front end.

The R1150R EZS rig, not even one mile away from my place, so I spent many hours studying its L.L. before ordering mine.
The L.L. for the GS is the same than for the R, except 8 cm longer. And I put a different front tire, car tire 165/80/15, the one on the R, M.C. tire 175/55/15 from a scooter Yamaha Tmax 500.


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