ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Hacks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-06-2012, 03:43 PM   #1
JustKip OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
JustKip's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Fresno, CA
Oddometer: 4,370
Tub Weight and Sub Frame Questions (and more as I think of them)

As I get closer to making this 3 wheeled thing happen for me I'm finidng I have more questions than answers.
First, I love 2WD Urals, but have serious concerns with on-road preformance - particularly up hills.

Which brings me to wondering about the weight of the tub. Yeah. I know...this will sound foolhardy to many. I know Claude and Jay make thier tubs from aluminum and fiberglass, respectively. How much weight savings would there be from switching the factory steel tub for either of the well known and respected ones mentioned?

And this kinda brings my rambling thoughts to a similar issue; If I don't go with Ural, the most likely alternative would be to use an '07 Bonnie for a tug, with the option of using my '07 GS a very close 3rd. Used Ural tubs are fairly easy to find, and (I'm guessing)much cheaper than a one-off custom from CSM or DMC, and the weight difference might again play a role in decision making.

The other issue is sub-frames. Perhaps this question would be best directed at the pro builders, but many have done thier own and I prefer to have a hand in at least setting up my own. What IS a subframe? Don't the chair mounts attach directly to the bike frame? If I find a Ural tub, can I buy mounts from Jay and hook it right up to the '07 Bonnie? Or does it need a subframe? What about buying the whole set-up from Claude or jay? Would "sub frame" be an option, or part of the package? And speaking of "the whole package", would I save that much by useing a Ural tub, or would it make sense to just do the whole thing?
What about the '07 GS - same questions...subframe, heavier vs lighter?
JustKip is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #2
YOUNZ
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Around Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
As I get closer to making this 3 wheeled thing happen for me I'm finidng I have more questions than answers.
First, I love 2WD Urals, but have serious concerns with on-road preformance - particularly up hills.

Which brings me to wondering about the weight of the tub. Yeah. I know...this will sound foolhardy to many. I know Claude and Jay make thier tubs from aluminum and fiberglass, respectively. How much weight savings would there be from switching the factory steel tub for either of the well known and respected ones mentioned?

And this kinda brings my rambling thoughts to a similar issue; If I don't go with Ural, the most likely alternative would be to use an '07 Bonnie for a tug, with the option of using my '07 GS a very close 3rd. Used Ural tubs are fairly easy to find, and (I'm guessing)much cheaper than a one-off custom from CSM or DMC, and the weight difference might again play a role in decision making.

The other issue is sub-frames. Perhaps this question would be best directed at the pro builders, but many have done thier own and I prefer to have a hand in at least setting up my own. What IS a subframe? Don't the chair mounts attach directly to the bike frame? If I find a Ural tub, can I buy mounts from Jay and hook it right up to the '07 Bonnie? Or does it need a subframe? What about buying the whole set-up from Claude or jay? Would "sub frame" be an option, or part of the package? And speaking of "the whole package", would I save that much by useing a Ural tub, or would it make sense to just do the whole thing?
What about the '07 GS - same questions...subframe, heavier vs lighter?
If the sidecar is too lite, you'll need ballast when empty. I wouldn't want a car less than 150 lbs. empty.
YOUNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 06:56 PM   #3
JustKip OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
JustKip's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Fresno, CA
Oddometer: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUNZ View Post
If the sidecar is too lite, you'll need ballast when empty. I wouldn't want a car less than 150 lbs. empty.
"Empty"?
You're kidding, right?
I want a hack so I can carry a bigger tool kit
JustKip is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 08:42 PM   #4
claude
Sidecar Jockey
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
Oddometer: 3,562
A subframe or partial subframe is a good thing. If built correctly.Subframes bascially bolt tothe bike and the sidecar mounts attach to the subframe. They will add strength to the whole assembly and also allow mounting points for the sidecar to be placed for good structure and ease of adjustment. Subframes are your friend if designed and built well.
Feel free to call to discuss this in more detail if you wish.
__________________
Claude

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
claude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 05:51 AM   #5
Bobmws
Curmudgeon At Large
 
Bobmws's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Same trailer, different park, FL
Oddometer: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
As I get closer to making this 3 wheeled thing happen for me I'm finidng I have more questions than answers.
First, I love 2WD Urals, but have serious concerns with on-road preformance - particularly up hills.

Which brings me to wondering about the weight of the tub. Yeah. I know...this will sound foolhardy to many. I know Claude and Jay make thier tubs from aluminum and fiberglass, respectively. How much weight savings would there be from switching the factory steel tub for either of the well known and respected ones mentioned?

And this kinda brings my rambling thoughts to a similar issue; If I don't go with Ural, the most likely alternative would be to use an '07 Bonnie for a tug, with the option of using my '07 GS a very close 3rd. Used Ural tubs are fairly easy to find, and (I'm guessing)much cheaper than a one-off custom from CSM or DMC, and the weight difference might again play a role in decision making.

The other issue is sub-frames. Perhaps this question would be best directed at the pro builders, but many have done thier own and I prefer to have a hand in at least setting up my own. What IS a subframe? Don't the chair mounts attach directly to the bike frame? If I find a Ural tub, can I buy mounts from Jay and hook it right up to the '07 Bonnie? Or does it need a subframe? What about buying the whole set-up from Claude or jay? Would "sub frame" be an option, or part of the package? And speaking of "the whole package", would I save that much by useing a Ural tub, or would it make sense to just do the whole thing?
What about the '07 GS - same questions...subframe, heavier vs lighter?
You first have to decide what type of roads/riding you will do.
Lower highway speed (55-60) and some serious off road will suit the Ural well.
If your regular ride will be 65 and up highway, and fire road/gravel road you Trumpet or GS will be a better choice.
Look for Riding Donkeys posts, he and Mrs RD have both a Ural and a Triumph.
A subframe is required because current modern bikes do not have frames designed to handle the stress of a sidecar. A Ural frame is built with the sidecar in mind.
__________________
Bob Weis 04 K12RS - Hannigan Hack
Everything happens for a reason, but sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.
Photo's: http://s1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/Bobmws/
www.earplugco.com
Bobmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 05:57 AM   #6
YOUNZ
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Around Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
"Empty"?
You're kidding, right?
I want a hack so I can carry a bigger tool kit
Perhaps, your tug is a Harley?
YOUNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 09:14 AM   #7
jaydmc
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Oddometer: 1,003
The term sub frame and mounts are often both used to describe the mounting system on the bike. In most cases either term is correct. In the case of the Bonneville our mounts or "sub frame" consists of 4 parts. The lower front mount clamps to both frame down tubes so it ties both sides of the frame. Our lower rear mount bolts to already existing holes and also ties both sides of the frame together. Our upper front mount attaches to the left down tube where the frame can be unbolted by picking up the two bolts that hold the frame together. Our upper rear mount is one of our "universal" type frame clamps. BTW our Scrambler mount is almost the same other then the upper rear mount as the is an exhaust pipe in the way. For the Bonneville we also make new from billet triple tree's to lower the steering effort.
On your 07 GS I will assume it is an R1200GS (we also have stuff for the F type GS bikes) the mounts for this bike attach to the engine for the lower mounts, the upper rear mount attaches to where the frame for the seat sub assembly attaches to the main frame and it also attaches to the upper shock mounting bolt. The front upper mount ties to to the top of the engine as well as tying into the lower mount assembly. For the GS we also make a new from billet ball joint mount for lighter steering as well as an automotive rear wheel conversion.
Our sidecars are production items that are semi customized to your needs meaning you can order a kit to be shipped to you and if you ever need replacment parts for the most part we can supply them.
As you already know how to ride sidecar if you want to come up to our shop and take our GS demo bike out for the day you are welcome to.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
jaydmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014