The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by stubmw

Well........Then.

I think it perfectly reasonable to question if the added cost/complexity of a new technology is worth the added benefit, if any, it may have. Are LED headlights really that much better to justify all the extra crap.

Yes, then we can avoid all the threads about people complaining their halogen bulbs burned out and they broke the spring clip trying to replace it. You have to admit, anything's an improvement on that!

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by tallguy-09

Noticed on the International BMW Motorrad site (not USA) 3 different equipment variants.
- Touring
- Dynamik
- Offroad

Yeap and it showed up on the US website for one day, but seems now to be gone. Typically option packages are different in the U.S. from Europe and elsewhere, so we'll see. I'll take mine loaded!

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Moronic

The primary drive is about 5 per cent taller. The final drive is the same. If the internal ratios were unchanged, then every gear would be 5 per cent taller.

However, they have lowered the internal ratio for first about 2.5 per cent. (and changed others, as above). That compensates for the taller primary, but not fully. Hence, overall, it looks like first gear on the new bikes will be taller than on the old.

My guess: they think that would be nicer for street riding, and hope that the multi-plate wet clutch and better low-speed running will make up for it in the dirt.

Thanks for the explanation.

[vtbob]

Interesting info on the gear ratios. Clearly the result of the more powerful engine characteristics.
Tie this to the fatter tire profile both front and rear....seems to me this new GS is being tailored more toward paved road riding than any of the earlier versions.

This probable smart as most GS buyer ride pavement ...and 125 hp vs 115 has little benefit in the dirt.

[mkletecka]

Originally Posted by vtbob

Interesting info on the gear ratios. Clearly the result of the more powerful engine characteristics.
Tie this to the fatter tire profile both front and rear....seems to me this new GS is being tailored more toward paved road riding than any of the earlier versions.

This probable smart as most GS buyer ride pavement ...and 125 hp vs 115 has little benefit in the dirt.

Amen Brother!!!!!!!! However, BMW needed to address the masses (80% of the riders who want/but never use the HP they already have, but need more HP for bragging rights at the local hangout). IMHO, the only benefit of the WC's increased HP is for 6th gear "roll-on" 70/80 to 120MPH "straight line" momentary blasts on the wide open freeway, which the masses typically love to do and equate to "speed". But they wont be able to use that added power on canyon roads or in the dirt

[oalvarez]

Originally Posted by mkletecka

IMHO, the only benefit of the WC's increased HP is for 6th gear "roll-on" 70/80 to 120MPH "straight line" momentary blasts on the wide open freeway, which the masses typically love to do and equate to "speed". But they wont be able to use that added power on canyon roads or in the dirt

mkletecka, why do yo say such (highlighted in bold)?

regards,

[Midnullarbor]

Have there been any reports giving scientific assessment of the actual performance of the different types of new headlights?

LED lights are currently very new and very trendy.
They certainly seem a good idea as auxiliary lights or day running lights ~ though as DRL's they might be the better for being slightly yellow-tinged.
For those sorts of applications they seem good value, despite the automotive LED technology being in its primitive infancy.

Remember when HID's first came in : all the trendiness [and high costs] and hype suggesting that they were so much better than the old simple [and cheap] Quartz Halogen bulbs?

And still the un-trendy, un-fan-cooled, un-ballast-boxed QH lights are performing well.
Yes, a 35 watt HID bulb puts out twice the number of lumens than a typical QH high beam ~ but a bi-xenon HID bulb is struggling [thanks to its shielding and reflector design] to outperform a good QH in real-life performance terms i.e. in how much light is projected forward in a useful pattern in the middle distance where you need it.

The LED headlights put out a lot of lumens per watt of electricity . . . but how much illumination performance on high beam do they provide? It would be nice to know.
Once we see objective evidence of performance, then we can set that against their various other pro's and con's, and make a reasoned decision on whether to buy or not.
No agonising for fashionistas, of course . . . they will buy LED's as soon as available.

[cug]

Originally Posted by oalvarez

mkletecka, why do yo say such (highlighted in bold)?

Could be the definition of "canyon road". Or "twisty" for that matter. What people here (and on Youtube) often think as "twisty" is for me a plain joke. I wouldn't even characterize those roads as "curvy" or "not straight" ...

Everything where I can ride faster on a GS than on a WR250X is not twisty ...

But that might just be me.

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

And still the un-trendy, un-fan-cooled, un-ballast-boxed QH lights are performing well..

You sure about that? How many posts are there on ADV about burned out QH bulbs and broken spring clips? But hey the good thing is the LEDs are optional so you don't have to get them....so your concerns about being trendy are solved!

[Midnullarbor]

Yep, EJ-92606, I am talking about QH headlights' performance ~ that is, how well they illuminate the road.

The question of how long a QH bulb lasts, is of course relevant and important.
For most bikes on the road, a QH bulb should last 400 - 800 hours or so.
That's quite a helluva lot of miles . . . shall we say 10,000 to 40,000 riding miles, before you have to dig into your pocket for a $5 ~ $10 replacement? (Assuming you haven't troubled to carry a spare bulb in your kit.)

Now, we have all heard of a certain unnamed twin-cylindered bike which can sometimes manage to blow QH bulbs in surprisingly short order.
Perhaps I am being unjust, but I tend to blame that bike's designers for the short bulb life (rather than blame the bulbs themselves) ~ somehow, by some means of electro-trickery, they have managed to sabotage the normal bulb life expectancy.

Now again, if they can sabotage the humble and simple QH bulb . . . can we trust them not to sabotage the "normally expected to be far longer" life expectancy of a diode-circuitry or HID-ballast-box ?
I am hopeful . . . but I am uncertain whether the fan on the LED headlight is a sign of careful design or of a worrying weakness. [And how reliable is the fan itself?]

Personally, I would like to have a headlight system with hybrid QH + LED elements, with enough redundancy so that I can keep riding at fair touring speed, even when one component has expired.
Maybe you call that "reliability" or maybe you call that "resilience" . . . when you are far from the nearest corner store.

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

Personally, I would like to have a headlight system with hybrid QH + LED elements, with enough redundancy so that I can keep riding at fair touring speed, even when one component has expired.

They got ya covered...standard halogen lights, with LED running light option should fit the bill nicely for you!

[herrdirektor]

Hi,
I say 2014 will be the year of the GSA, since BMW has made changes in their production/quality lines. They will be capable pull it off to release, pretty sure about that. My dealer thinks 2014 too, and he visits Germany often enough. Time will tell.

Just as I was thinking that my previous R1200GSA (2008) was just about the fugliest bike BMW could ever think of, they came out with the design of this new WC boxer. Bravo, bravo ! It is so ugly, it blots out the sun, thus increasing the adventure experience too. Only thing for me left is to wait for an even uglier ADV version, and yours truly will return to the realm of the GS world. For now I'm by far too happy with my totally different animal, the K1300S. (My R80 1992 boxer does take part in this or any discussion).

Opening my oversize bag of popcorn, and awaiting the developments.

[Marki_GSA]

Apparently BMW announced yesterday that the GSA will be shown at next year's show. I haven't tracked down the announcement yet, will post it when I do.

[genka]

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

LED lights are currently very new and very trendy.
They certainly seem a good idea as auxiliary lights or day running lights ~ though as DRL's they might be the better for being slightly yellow-tinged.
For those sorts of applications they seem good value, despite the automotive LED technology being in its primitive infancy.

In infancy on a consumer market. In commercial application, where the labor costs and downtime come into play LEDs have been in use for quite a while. Semis have had LED tail lights for decades. LED traffic lights, flashing emergency lightbars are at least 10 years old. All newer city buses here in Baltimore have LED headlights, and many of the old ones have been upgraded. LEDs have a proven reliability record.
Having said this, I'm afraid to think what BMW will charge for a replacement LED headlight assembly. I won't be surprised if no components, even front glass or fan will be available separately.

[khale]

Originally Posted by genka

In infancy on a consumer market. In commercial application, where the labor costs and downtime come into play LEDs have been in use for quite a while. Semis have had LED tail lights for decades. LED traffic lights, flashing emergency lightbars are at least 10 years old. All newer city buses here in Baltimore have LED headlights, and many of the old ones have been upgraded. LEDs have a proven reliability record.
Having said this, I'm afraid to think what BMW will charge for a replacement LED headlight assembly. I won't be surprised if no components, even front glass or fan will be available separately.

I'm sorry, but I don't recall any replacement part being cheap on a BMW. Why would anyone be surprised if it was expensive. I messed up my left side panel and to replace it as an unpainted side panel was fuckin $350. So the rule of thumb is, buy an expensive bike and have fun, just don't break anything.