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Old 10-09-2012, 09:34 AM   #1
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Bad Luck

From a story today in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, on motorcyle fatalities:

Some years it just seems like bad luck when a high number of riders are killed - often through no fault of their own.
In 2011, nine Wisconsin motorcyclists died when their bikes struck animals including deer, a turkey, a wolf, a horse and a cow. One rider was killed when a tree fell on him.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by SkiFastBadly View Post
From a story today in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, on motorcyle fatalities:

Some years it just seems like bad luck when a high number of riders are killed - often through no fault of their own.
In 2011, nine Wisconsin motorcyclists died when their bikes struck animals including deer, a turkey, a wolf, a horse and a cow. One rider was killed when a tree fell on him.
I'll never dare say I'm infallible but, I disagree with the part I highlighted.
Skills and observation play a large part in a riders beating the odds stacked up against them.

F.W.I.W. I have no health insurance (can't afford that AND food) but still commute daily, including all winter long (even when it snows)...that's how confident I am in my skills. (no ABS either)

When it comes to Deer vs. cagers = I'll take the Deer any time as I still think they're more predictable than people.
Warning signs are everywhere and not being able to spot them is most definitely the "fault" of the rider.

...and yes!; I'm sure my fuck-up, is on its way. (I don't kid myself that one day I'll be off my game but, it will most certainly BE MY FAULT)
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I'll never dare say I'm infallible but, I disagree with the part I highlighted.
Skills and observation play a large part in a riders beating the odds stacked up against them.

F.W.I.W. I have no health insurance (can't afford that AND food) but still commute daily, including all winter long (even when it snows)...that's how confident I am in my skills. (no ABS either)

When it comes to Deer vs. cagers = I'll take the Deer any time as I still think they're more predictable than people.
Warning signs are everywhere and not being able to spot them is most definitely the "fault" of the rider.

...and yes!; I'm sure my fuck-up, is on its way. (I don't kid myself that one day I'll be off my game but, it will most certainly BE MY FAULT)
What color is the sky in your world? You don't have to fuck-up to get taken out but it must be nice to assume your mighty skills will carry you through... ride on... in ignorance if you must.

I hit a deer on the bike this year. Came out of the woods 10 feet from the road on a dead run. I had enough time to get about 10 feet of brake.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
When it comes to Deer vs. cagers = I'll take the Deer any time as I still think they're more predictable than people.
Warning signs are everywhere and not being able to spot them is most definitely the "fault" of the rider.
Complete opposite for me.. give me cages over deer any day! Been hit by those dumb ass deer 7 times - 4 while I was driving and 3 while I was riding. In 4 of the 7 deer strikes, the stupid forest rat ran out of the woods into the side of my car or bike!

By far the greatest risk to my life and limb, and I'm not far from one of the most traffic congested places on earth... NYC.

This deer strike is my all time favorite:

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=31
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:20 AM   #5
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Is there any data on how many of the nine were wearing helmets?

Been living in WI for the past two years and riders with helmets on are a rarity around here.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by hooliken View Post
Been living in WI for the past two years and riders with helmets on are a rarity around here.
I'm a native of Wisconsin and I was back this summer. I live in WA where there's a helmet law. And as a good ADV'er, I'm always ATGATT. It was shocking to see the low percentage of people on bikes with helmets. Or any kind of protective gear.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by SkiFastBadly View Post
I'm a native of Wisconsin and I was back this summer. I live in WA where there's a helmet law. And as a good ADV'er, I'm always ATGATT. It was shocking to see the low percentage of people on bikes with helmets. Or any kind of protective gear.
Moved out here from VA which also has a helmet law. Have lived in other states that do not require helmets and the pattern is similiar. To me wearing a helmet is like putting on my seatbelt. It is automatic.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:21 PM   #8
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Give me cages over deer anyday. Both are unpredictable, cages are bigger and faster, but deer are harder to see, quicker, and change directions quicker than cages. You can outmaneuver a cage, you can't outmaneuver a deer.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #9
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Give me cages over deer anyday. Both are unpredictable, cages are bigger and faster, but deer are harder to see, quicker, and change directions quicker than cages. You can outmaneuver a cage, you can't outmaneuver a deer.
No! YOU can't but, you can use their instinct to flee predators and as you scrub off speed, aim for them, they'll do the rest. (they always run away from the direction of travel their "attacker" takes) Cages= not as much predictability there. (people are too stupid and have lost most of their survival instincts...that's Why I'd rather deal with the Deer)
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bighairless View Post
What color is the sky in your world? You don't have to fuck-up to get taken out but it must be nice to assume your mighty skills will carry you through... ride on... in ignorance if you must.

I hit a deer on the bike this year. Came out of the woods 10 feet from the road on a dead run. I had enough time to get about 10 feet of brake.

I guess a big difference between us, (I apologize if I'm making a wrong assumption here) is that I commute the same routes every day and know where their routine crossings are for some added peace of mind.
Put me in a new area and I'll take the time to get to look for their crossing paths before I have any fun on the new roads.
As for my skills carrying me through, I learned a few things the hard way but, can say in retrospect, all of my get offs have been my fault due to ignorance. = I'm not so ignorant anymore and with my aged skills (accident free all-weather/snow rider now for the past 15 yrs)...I feel more aware than ever before.
If situational awareness is ignorance = I'm blessed with a shit-ton of it.

I've hit 1 deer in my past, and even then; managed to scrub off enough speed while staying upright, that I came to a stop under the bastards belly and got to watch it try and tangle itself in the spokes of my front wheel as it lept for its life. We both went our seperate paths unharmed. (and yet!...I still can't hit the lottery)
Peripheral vision = it's a wonderful thing to use. (I've learned there's lots to be seen through all the dense scrub-brush if you learn what to look for...and my polarized lenses help an awful lot, as do all-weather amber lights {that show improved contrast @ night} vs the normal white/blue headlights that everyone else sticks with.)

HID lights might be brighter but, it doesn't mean that you can see more.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:20 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SkiFastBadly View Post
...a wolf,...
What are the odds of THAT.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
What are the odds of THAT.
In one case, apparently 100%. I was struck by the bad luck of the guy being killed when a tree fell on him. I can just imagine the conversation: "I told him that motocycling was dangerous."
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I guess a big difference between us, (I apologize if I'm making a wrong assumption here) is that I commute the same routes every day and know where their routine crossings are for some added peace of mind.
Put me in a new area and I'll take the time to get to look for their crossing paths before I have any fun on the new roads.
As for my skills carrying me through, I learned a few things the hard way but, can say in retrospect, all of my get offs have been my fault due to ignorance. = I'm not so ignorant anymore and with my aged skills (accident free all-weather/snow rider now for the past 15 yrs)...I feel more aware than ever before.
If situational awareness is ignorance = I'm blessed with a shit-ton of it.

I've hit 1 deer in my past, and even then; managed to scrub off enough speed while staying upright, that I came to a stop under the bastards belly and got to watch it try and tangle itself in the spokes of my front wheel as it lept for its life. We both went our seperate paths unharmed. (and yet!...I still can't hit the lottery)
Peripheral vision = it's a wonderful thing to use. (I've learned there's lots to be seen through all the dense scrub-brush if you learn what to look for...and my polarized lenses help an awful lot, as do all-weather amber lights {that show improved contrast @ night} vs the normal white/blue headlights that everyone else sticks with.)

HID lights might be brighter but, it doesn't mean that you can see more.
It sounds like you are very aware of the dangers and have put some thought into avoiding it, however, your ignorance IMHO is thinking your peripheral vision/amber lights/polarized lenses/critter habit knowledge/seeing through dense scrub brush will make any getoff your fault if you strike an animal (or it strikes you).

I started hunting deer in the early 80's ....I currently gather info for a large university and the DNR on local critters. I spend about 20 hours a week (typically more) for a couple/few months every spring in the bush...I can you tell you the habits of creatures in mind numbing detail...from the mating habits of northern bullsnakes to where does like to give birth to young. Do you know the two months that have the most deer/vehicle collisions and why? (no need to answer) I'm not trying to have a measuring contest but your reasoning used to dissagree with 'no fault of their own' is off. -Your abilities may exceed mine but I'm not ill prepared.

A deer can run over 30 mph...some claim 40. Lets stick with a conservative 30 for the sake of this example. -A deer can easily cover 44 feet in a second...near 30 feet in one leap. So if the deer is 44 feet from where it will occupy your space it can get there in less than a second. Your reaction time is what? ..because there won't be time for any decision making analysis.

My deer hit: seeing deer is no shocker, I thought about the risk the morning I hit the deer before leaving on the bike and during the ride...paying attention has allowed me to miss a few deer and turkeys. I went back to the scene a couple of times, I wanted to learn from it and avoid it if possible...The deer came out from behind some scrub that I could not see through standing right next to it (tried it). The edge of the scrub was about 30 feet from point of impact. My earliest memory of seeing the deer was when it was about 10 feet from the scrub. I think I caught movement with peripheral and by the time my eyes were lined up the deer had covered the 10 feet because she was bringing the mail. I figure I had less than 7 tenths of a second until impact from when the deer's nose poked out from behind the scrub.

Figure 2 tenths of second reaction time...5 tenths of a second to slow down. Can you significantly alter course in 5 tenths? Even if you can, could you pick the correct direction? Will the deer pick the correct direction? And 5 tenths would have been reacting to the nose of the deer clearing the scrub. Absolute perfection -not likely.

There is no way to know for certain when I hit the binders time wise. I know the front suspension (wr) was fully compressed and the rear tire was howling when I left the bike. Could I have done better? I tend to think there is always room for improvement but given the amount of time involved (probably near half a second from recognition and then subtract the reaction time), what could be done?



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Old 10-10-2012, 02:34 AM   #14
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Trust me Bighairless, I inderstand the point you're trying to make and it's the reason I said what I did the first time...my fuck-up is on its way...
"My fuck-up" for arguments sake, isn't a mistake, or a lack of reaction time on my part. (I hear you loud and clear here!)...it's my deciding to ride and taking the added "risk" in the first place. = semantics. ...as I know it's only a matter of time until IT happens and I might get taken out.
I gladly take that risk, for the LIVING, I enjoy in the NOW!.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairless
. Do you know the two months that have the most deer/vehicle collisions and why? (no need to answer)

.
So what's the answer?
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