First ride in Ont, very poor experience with OPP

[Maggot12]

And to answer a few question..

I moved from BC because of a military posting and yes I drove here, taking the Sarnia area border crossing, (and I can't recal seeing, no detector warning signs, not to say they weren't there though). Spent 4 yrs in BC and was happy to leave. Family is from NFLD and BC is a long way from home. I can see if you were from there you wouldn't want to leave. Lower mainland is where I'd live though, Chiliwack area probably.

We lived in Victoria. Van Island is nice, can ride yr around, but the riding itself is not that great as its very limited. It only has a couple roads going north/south and a few roads going east/west. You can cover every paved road in a weekend and it gets repetitive after that. Off rd would be better but I didn't do any of that. I put 47k miles on a US dl650 in the 3.5 yrs there.

We had a great time travelling and camping, covering most areas of BC (Whistler, Banff and all over Van Island), Wa and Or. Drove the coast down to San Diego, San Fran, went to Grand Canyon, Vegas, Hawaii. Alaska and Yukon were on my list before I left but never made it.

Never asked to come to Ont, but its been good till now, wife and kids are happy to be here. Lots to do and see, and will attempt to do the same here as we did in BC and take in everything possible in the 3-4 yrs I'll be here. I figure NS or NFLD after this.

If standing in front of a bunch of officers to speak my case somehow "red flags" them to somehow pick on me (51 in a 50 as was mentioned or standing on pegs), I'll sell the bike and buy a Corolla, as it wouldn't be worth the aggravation of owning a motorcycle here.

[Maggot12]

Originally Posted by StepOnIt

I am not saying to fight to get your radar protector back just the ticket.
Plea your case and see what happens, worse case scenario is you have to pay the full price. It is not like he let you off easy and you can show the damage he did to your bike.
I agree it is easy just to pay the fine and they know that. Cant say they like to go to court, but a judge might tell him to be careful next time.

According to the back of the ticket for option # 2, they have the "plead guilty and face justice team" only every third friday of every month. So who knows if this officer will be there. Not that it matters to me.

If pleading not guilty, this is when you make an appointment for court time and likely face the defending officer.

Worst case for me is where I stand now. I pay the 170 while I'm there and get nothing back. Best case scenario... no idea But I'll feel good about it.

[walkergreenlabel]

Originally Posted by Slow Toast

It's in the regulations (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...s_070455_e.htm)

ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07
Section 3
6 Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.

in some sections there is a distinction between motor vehicle and motorcycle. does motor vehicle include motorcycle in this case or just cages?

when its hot I need to stand up and let the stones cool off in the breeze!

[toddiscdn]

Originally Posted by Maggot12

I moved from BC because of a military posting and yes I drove here, taking the Sarnia area border crossing, (and I can't recal seeing, no detector warning signs, not to say they weren't there though).

The signs are there, about 5 miles from the bridge just past the airport. I dirve by there regularly and the only reason I notice them is because Ive been popped before . Is a litlle 1ft square sign on either side of the 402 that says "SPEED MEASURING WARNING DEVICES PROHIBITED" clear as mud eh!

I'll sell the bike and buy a Corolla, as it wouldn't be worth the aggravation of owning a motorcycle here.

Now your just being silly, welcome to Ontario, its no different than BC other than the radar dector thing, lotsa people feel the same about the RCMP, the wacko BC goverment and ICBC. The BC stunting law is actually worse, with 40 over being the limit to lose your ride rather than 50 . Really , its not that bad here

[Patrol]

I don't see the logic in paying a lawyer $1000 to fight a $100 ticket.

The O.Reg you are quoting pertains to cars, not bikes. The highway traffic act defines the seat on a motorcycle as a "saddle". This reg has nothing to do with bikes.

[StepOnIt]

Originally Posted by Patrol

I don't see the logic in paying a lawyer $1000 to fight a $100 ticket.

not sure why it would cost $1000 to get a lawyer?? I got a ticket for 31km over so major infraction 6pts and $300 (if i remember right) Got a lawyer for $350 to fight it and she got it knocked down to a $100 fine, no points and nothing on my driving record. So in the end it cost me $450 but saves me money in the end.

[pelvis_98]

Originally Posted by Patrol

I don't see the logic in paying a lawyer $1000 to fight a $100 ticket.

The O.Reg you are quoting pertains to cars, not bikes. The highway traffic act defines the seat on a motorcycle as a "saddle". This reg has nothing to do with bikes.

I dont read "sitting in a seat" as meaning standing on pegs either.

But when i read the HTA i also see this.

"“motorcycle” means a self-propelled vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the driver and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and includes a motor scooter, but does not include a motor assisted bicycle; (“motocyclette”)"

So it can be "seat or saddle"

"172. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

What if the cop thinks standing on the pegs is a stunt? Or he feels that standing on the pegs has the possibility of causing harm to the rider or someone else at the time?

That may not be the intent of the law and you and me may agree that it doesn't really say "standing" But if the cop on the side of the road disagrees or has read someplace else in HTA and feels it applies, what option do we have? We all know how well things go when you try and argue your case on the side of the road with a cop.

[Drif10]

Yep. You get the tow, the suspension, regardless. Court only helps on the fine.

[Patrol]

Let me try this again. If you're being charged for stunting, you will receive a summons from the officer. The summons is either written by hand or a few big cities now have printers in the cruisers. There are "approved wordings" that the officer must choose from, he can't just make up a charge. For stunting there are five. Perform Stunt on Highway - 165 km/h in a Posted 50 km/h Zone", or Perform Stunt on Highway - Engage in Race, for example. There are only 5 wordings for stunting. none of them involves pegs or standing or anything close.

If you feel the need to stand on the pegs on a highway, fill your boots.

[pelvis_98]

Originally Posted by Patrol

Let me try this again. If you're being charged for stunting, you will receive a summons from the officer. The summons is either written by hand or a few big cities now have printers in the cruisers. There are "approved wordings" that the officer must choose from, he can't just make up a charge. For stunting there are five. Perform Stunt on Highway - 165 km/h in a Posted 50 km/h Zone", or Perform Stunt on Highway - Engage in Race, for example. There are only 5 wordings for stunting. none of them involves pegs or standing or anything close.

If you feel the need to stand on the pegs on a highway, fill your boots.

Ok, so you charge someone and use the words "Preform a Stunt on a Highway".

Whats a stunt, in the eyes of every cop out there?

[Patrol]

There's no such charge as "Perform Stunt on Highway", it has to be Perform Stunt on Highway - ________ one of the wordings. A charge that doesn't exist can't be laid before the court. The cop can certainly misunderstand what's required, what constitutes a violation, etc but there is no way to lay a charge for standing on the pegs.

Do you see what I'm saying? The summons can't say "Perform Stunt on Highway". It must say "Perform Stunt on Highway - Greater than 49 km/h or Engage in Race or Lift Wheel etc. There are only five possibilities. He can't think you're performing a stunt all he wants but unless parliament has ruled that the action (such as standing on the pegs) is a stunt there is no charge. If standing on the pegs ever becomes illegal in Ontario it probably won't be stunting, it will be a regular $110 ticket, but there are occasions when it is appropriate to stand on the pegs, so it is highly unlikely this will ever be illegal.

[pelvis_98]

Originally Posted by Patrol

There's no such charge as "Perform Stunt on Highway", it has to be Perform Stunt on Highway - ________ one of the wordings. A charge that doesn't exist can't be laid before the court. The cop can certainly misunderstand what's required, what constitutes a violation, etc but there is no way to lay a charge for standing on the pegs.

Do you see what I'm saying? The summons can't say "Perform Stunt on Highway". It must say "Perform Stunt on Highway - Greater than 49 km/h or Engage in Race or Lift Wheel etc. There are only five possibilities. He can't think you're performing a stunt all he wants but unless parliament has ruled that the action (such as standing on the pegs) is a stunt there is no charge. If standing on the pegs ever becomes illegal in Ontario it probably won't be stunting, it will be a regular $110 ticket, but there are occasions when it is appropriate to stand on the pegs, so it is highly unlikely this will ever be illegal.

Can i be charged with "Not sitting in a seat"?

[Commuter Boy]

Originally Posted by toddiscdn

The signs are there, about 5 miles from the bridge just past the airport.

Cut the guy some slack, he was probably in awe after driving through the beautiful landscape of Ontario's industrial crown jewel

[jonyfi]

Originally Posted by Puddle

Take a bill for the repair work to the court. Ask the court if its okay for the OPP to damage your bike under the circumstances in such a way as to have the Officer explain the procedure and the need to execute the procedure in the manor it was conducted.

NICE!!! I am surely not the first to appove of this...

[CaribooBC]

Originally Posted by ecarnell

Guess what he does with your bike when he catches you doing 51km/hr over.....
Not sure what happens in BC.

In BC we get to ride the 52 window loser cruiser if we are caught going 41km/h over. 1 week impound plus fines and fees up the wazoo.