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Old 10-15-2012, 10:17 AM   #76
Lurky-Loo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor22 View Post
Your anger at Dorna regarding this one is misplaced.
But Ezpeleta provides such a convenient scapegoat; and his name sound furrin.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBunz View Post
Dorna puts fuel limits on the MotoGP bikes to slow them down in order to make the CRT POS bikes appear competitive.
That cocksucker Ezpeleta can't get it through his fucking head that racing is a speed contest, not a fuel efficiency contest.
MotoGP is over, but Dorna has figured out a way to milk it for a while longer before the whole thing collapses.
The fuel limit backfired. Instead of making the race more competitive, it killed the threat of competition to any of the front runners.
Greedy bastards and fucking idiots are running the show.
Hasta la vista.
That anger will eat you up man.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:59 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by ErikY. View Post
That anger will eat you up man.
+1
Is there a major auto or moto racing series that does not have a fuel limit. I'm all for reasonable fuel limits as it helps develop the technology for more fuel efficient road vehicles.

As mentioned earlier, Cals bike would have been topped off just like everyone else. His riding style just must use more fuel.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBunz View Post
Dorna puts fuel limits on the MotoGP bikes to slow them down in order to make the CRT POS bikes appear competitive.
That cocksucker Ezpeleta can't get it through his fucking head that racing is a speed contest, not a fuel efficiency contest.
MotoGP is over, but Dorna has figured out a way to milk it for a while longer before the whole thing collapses.
The fuel limit backfired. Instead of making the race more competitive, it killed the threat of competition to any of the front runners.
Greedy bastards and fucking idiots are running the show.
Hasta la vista.

The fuel limits were pushed through by the MSMA, the Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers Association, at the request of Honda. Dorna protested, saying that they did not think it was a good idea, but Dorna were powerless. Under the contract signed with the MSMA collectively, the manufacturers had a monopoly over the technical rules. Any rule the MSMA proposed would go through automatically. That includes rules such as the 21 liter fuel limit, the switch to 800cc, the engine limits (6, which they want to reduce to 5).

I asked Nakamoto once how Honda would feel about a change to the fuel limit. He looked at me as if I had just offered to sleep with his grandmother. The fuel limits mean that the factories get to work on fuel delivery at part throttle openings, which, they claim, helps them develop better throttle response for their road bikes.

Now, blame Ezpeleta for the chronic lack of money in the series, the fact that they prefer to keep chronically poor teams in the series rather than rich, well-funded ones, and Dorna's propensity to persuade sponsors to leave teams and sponsor races. But Dorna has little to do with the technical rules so far. The rules they have imposed are the 81mm bore and maximum of 4 cylinders. They did this because they couldn't persuade the manufacturers to accept a rev limit.

All that changed when the agreement with the MSMA ran out at the end of 2011. Right now, the MSMA has the same influence over the technical regulations as Dorna does: they have one vote in the Grand Prix Commission, which consists of the MSMA, Dorna, the FIM and IRTA (teams). Now, Dorna can propose rule changes if the teams support them.

The current proposal for a spec ECU comes from Dorna, and would come with an increase of fuel to 24 liters (that didn't stop Petrucci from running out of fuel, however). Honda are threatening to quit over the spec ECU. The rev limit they can accept (just) but a spec ECU negates their ability to gain a competitive advantage merely by outspending the other factories.

One final little story about the MSMA and their amazing technical competence. Dorna asked the factories to come up with ways of saving money, and more especially, cutting the lease price of a satellite bike back to around a million dollars. The factories found it difficult, and eventually proposed adopting a single bike rule, as WSBK, Moto2 and Moto3 has. Dorna thanked them kindly and said they would submit a proposal to the Grand Prix Commission. Shortly before the GPC meeting, an MSMA representative had a meeting with IRTA and asked them urgently to vote against the single bike rule. They didn't really want the rule, and didn't think it would save that much, but as they'd put it forward, they couldn't very well take it back again. So by asking IRTA to vote against it, they ensured that it would not be adopted. That is the level of competence we are talking about: getting other people to vote against their own proposals, because those proposals turn out to be stupid. I should add that I have this story from first hand, directly from one of the parties involved, and it was corroborated by a second source.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Now, blame Ezpeleta for the chronic lack of money in the series, the fact that they prefer to keep chronically poor teams in the series rather than rich, well-funded ones, and Dorna's propensity to persuade sponsors to leave teams and sponsor races.
The rest I got - this nugget I would like to hear more about ...
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
The rest I got - this nugget I would like to hear more about ...
I can't afford the lawyers, and I don't have sufficient evidence at the moment.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:47 PM   #82
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Smells like Honda Spirit.

Still, people get their knickers in a bunch when I try to explain why HRC focusing on the Dakar is a bad idea...
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:52 PM   #83
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What happened with the big Motegi showdown over spec ECU's? Did they kick the can down the road again?
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:27 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post

Now, blame Ezpeleta for the chronic lack of money in the series, the fact that they prefer to keep chronically poor teams in the series rather than rich, well-funded ones, and Dorna's propensity to persuade sponsors to leave teams and sponsor races. But Dorna has little to do with the technical rules so far. The rules they have imposed are the 81mm bore and maximum of 4 cylinders. They did this because they couldn't persuade the manufacturers to accept a rev limit.

. . .

One final little story about the MSMA and their amazing technical competence. Dorna asked the factories to come up with ways of saving money, and more especially, cutting the lease price of a satellite bike back to around a million dollars. The factories found it difficult, and eventually proposed adopting a single bike rule, as WSBK, Moto2 and Moto3 has. Dorna thanked them kindly and said they would submit a proposal to the Grand Prix Commission. Shortly before the GPC meeting, an MSMA representative had a meeting with IRTA and asked them urgently to vote against the single bike rule. They didn't really want the rule, and didn't think it would save that much, but as they'd put it forward, they couldn't very well take it back again. So by asking IRTA to vote against it, they ensured that it would not be adopted. That is the level of competence we are talking about: getting other people to vote against their own proposals, because those proposals turn out to be stupid. I should add that I have this story from first hand, directly from one of the parties involved, and it was corroborated by a second source.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:29 PM   #85
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Fuel or not, Cal deserves a factory ride, in my humble fan-boy opinion.

He puts a Tech-3 bike on the front row, consistently; challenges for podiums against the big guns; really, really pushes the package he has available.

And, from my armchair, seems to improve/learn/develop especially well.

To top it off, he seems like the kind of bloke you'd enjoy sharing a beer with
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:41 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
Fuel or not, Cal deserves a factory ride, in my humble fan-boy opinion.

He puts a Tech-3 bike on the front row, consistently; challenges for podiums against the big guns; really, really pushes the package he has available.

And, from my armchair, seems to improve/learn/develop especially well.

To top it off, he seems like the kind of bloke you'd enjoy sharing a beer with
And he routinely fails to beat his team mate.

Like the guy, but first, you gotta beat the guy on the same bike to earn that ride before him.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
And he routinely fails to beat his team mate.

Like the guy, but first, you gotta beat the guy on the same bike to earn that ride before him.
Absolutely and in a nutshell ....

You do wonder how he would have gone this season had he not been moved aside for Simo at Repsol
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:05 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
The fuel limits were pushed through by the MSMA, the Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers Association, at the request of Honda. Dorna protested, saying that they did not think it was a good idea, but Dorna were powerless. Under the contract signed with the MSMA collectively, the manufacturers had a monopoly over the technical rules. Any rule the MSMA proposed would go through automatically. That includes rules such as the 21 liter fuel limit, the switch to 800cc, the engine limits (6, which they want to reduce to 5).

I asked Nakamoto once how Honda would feel about a change to the fuel limit. He looked at me as if I had just offered to sleep with his grandmother. The fuel limits mean that the factories get to work on fuel delivery at part throttle openings, which, they claim, helps them develop better throttle response for their road bikes.

Now, blame Ezpeleta for the chronic lack of money in the series, the fact that they prefer to keep chronically poor teams in the series rather than rich, well-funded ones, and Dorna's propensity to persuade sponsors to leave teams and sponsor races. But Dorna has little to do with the technical rules so far. The rules they have imposed are the 81mm bore and maximum of 4 cylinders. They did this because they couldn't persuade the manufacturers to accept a rev limit.

All that changed when the agreement with the MSMA ran out at the end of 2011. Right now, the MSMA has the same influence over the technical regulations as Dorna does: they have one vote in the Grand Prix Commission, which consists of the MSMA, Dorna, the FIM and IRTA (teams). Now, Dorna can propose rule changes if the teams support them.

The current proposal for a spec ECU comes from Dorna, and would come with an increase of fuel to 24 liters (that didn't stop Petrucci from running out of fuel, however). Honda are threatening to quit over the spec ECU. The rev limit they can accept (just) but a spec ECU negates their ability to gain a competitive advantage merely by outspending the other factories.

One final little story about the MSMA and their amazing technical competence. Dorna asked the factories to come up with ways of saving money, and more especially, cutting the lease price of a satellite bike back to around a million dollars. The factories found it difficult, and eventually proposed adopting a single bike rule, as WSBK, Moto2 and Moto3 has. Dorna thanked them kindly and said they would submit a proposal to the Grand Prix Commission. Shortly before the GPC meeting, an MSMA representative had a meeting with IRTA and asked them urgently to vote against the single bike rule. They didn't really want the rule, and didn't think it would save that much, but as they'd put it forward, they couldn't very well take it back again. So by asking IRTA to vote against it, they ensured that it would not be adopted. That is the level of competence we are talking about: getting other people to vote against their own proposals, because those proposals turn out to be stupid. I should add that I have this story from first hand, directly from one of the parties involved, and it was corroborated by a second source.
Thank you for the clarification. For me, it makes little difference which power broker screwed the series. They all point their finger at the other guy anyway. I won't tolerate it. Let's see how their throttle responds to a declining fan base.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:37 PM   #89
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That anger will eat you up man.
Not at all. Repressing anger is what eats people up.
It's all in how the anger is expressed.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:05 AM   #90
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Some one needs to tell Stoner about who changes the rules he blames Dorna in every interview when most changes are brought about by the company he rides for.
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