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10-17-2012, 05:15 PM
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#526 | |
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armchair asshole
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: tucson
Oddometer: 2,555
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I can say that I got into cycling because of the publicity the LA brought to the sport after his 1st tour win. Incredible athlete is right. Who wouldn’t be a fan of what that guy could do. I was a fan of his before I learned more about the sport. |
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10-18-2012, 09:13 AM
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#527 | |
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Zombie Holocaust
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Historic Montrose CO
Oddometer: 2,302
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Quote:
I've been enduring all the hype about this great athlete when I knew it wasn't true. Did you find him to be an unbelievable athlete when Indurain absolutely blew his doors off in the final time trial of the 1995 TdF? He's not such a special athlete if you take away the fact that his body responded to the drugs better than his competitors. In the same way that his body responded to the cancer drugs and helped him to beat cancer. Physiologically he's average among elite cyclists. He just had the best pharma backing. Amgen? He had the best chemists. It's sad to see some of you refuse to remove your blinders. The problem is not gone by any means.
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VIVA LOS MTNADS 
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10-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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#528 | |
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Getting a grip...
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Niwot CO
Oddometer: 1,604
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Quote:
Wish we could turn back time ... put a non-doped Lance against any others non-doped ... I'd love to see what could have happened. Had he been in the Lemond era, Greg likely would have crushed him. Perhaps Indurain was on something, who knows...but that guy was low-key and well respected. The denial of the general public that Lance was some kind of exceptional 'phenom' is annoying...it was all built on science and enhanced with drugs. I suppose he was doped to the gills for the marathons & triathalons, too. Yeah, he's awesome.
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The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar? Shuffler screwed with this post 10-18-2012 at 09:35 AM |
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10-18-2012, 09:35 AM
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#529 | |
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Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: socal
Oddometer: 4,260
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quite frankly, all of the top cyclists are suspect- look at the top 10 lists for the past decade or two, and the winners for the last 50 years, and i'll bet you'll find more people implicated in doping than not. PoundSand screwed with this post 10-18-2012 at 12:42 PM |
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10-18-2012, 10:51 AM
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#530 |
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Getting a grip...
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Niwot CO
Oddometer: 1,604
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The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar? |
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10-18-2012, 11:15 AM
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#531 |
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Boxer Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 419
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I was going to say what PoundSand said above. How do we know that Indurain wasn't cheating, as well?
Unfortunately, that's just the way it goes. Either way it still doesn't help or show well on Armstrong that he is trying to defend himself until what can only be called the "bitter end". I sent a quick note to Trek Bikes yesterday about my unhappiness with their "handling" of the Greg LeMond situation over the past years. Basically just said I'm not going to consider a Trek product until/unless they issue a public apology to Greg. I don't see that happening, but I suppose that's OK. I really liked my Tommaso and when I get another road bike, I'll probably get another one of those.
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Ben Carufel - Motorsport Photography - http://www.bencarufel.com '11 BMW F800ST - '02 BMW R1150GSA - '72 BMW R60/5 Other bikes to appear above shortly, rest assured... |
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10-18-2012, 12:10 PM
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#532 | |
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chronically restless
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 792
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Quote:
 From a post in JM: 1977 1st National Road Race Champion (Junior) 1978 1st Overall Vuelta de Bisbee 3rd TTT Junior World Championship 1979 1st World Road Race Champion (Junior) 1st National Road Race Champion (Junior) 1st Nevada City Classic 2nd Track Pursuit, Junior World Championship 1980 1st Overall Circuit de la Sarthe 1st Nevada City Classic 3rd Overall, Circuit des Ardennes 1981 1st Overall Coors Classic 1st Stage 1 1st Stage 7 1st Stage 2a Tour de Picardie 1st Nevada City Classic 3rd Route du Sud 3rd Critérium du Dauphiné 1982 1st Overall Tour de l'Avenir 2nd Stage 2 1st Stage 4 1st Stage 5 1st Stage 8 3rd Stage 10 3rd Tour de Corse 2nd Tour Méditerranéen (FRA) 2nd UCI Road World Championships, Men 3d Overall Tirreno - Adriatico 1st Stage 3 1983 1st World Road Race Champion 1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré 1st Stage 1 1st Stage 5 1st Stage 7b 1st Stage 1 Tour Méditerranéen 1st Super Prestige Pernod International 2nd Stage 1 Tour de Suisse 2nd Stage 3 Tour de Suisse 3rd Stage 4 Tour de Suisse 3rd Stage 7 Tour de Suisse 2nd GP des Nations 2nd Giro di Lombardia 1984 3rd Overall Tour de France 1st Young Rider Classification 1st Stage 3 (TTT) 3rd Overall Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré 1st Stage 7b 3rd Liège-Bastogne-Liège 1985 2nd Overall Tour de France 1st Stage 3 (TTT) 1st Stage 21 1st Combination classification 2nd Points Classification 4th Mountains Classification 1st Overall Coors Classic 1st Stage 5 2nd UCI Road World Championships, Men 2nd Vuelta Ciclista al País Vasco 2nd Stage 2 2nd Stage 3 3rd Stage 5b 3rd Giro d'Italia 3rd Stage 12 3rd Pernod-Super Prestige 4th Paris-Roubaix 1986 1st Overall Tour de France 1st Stage 13 1st Combination classification 4th Points Classification 3rd Mountains Classification 4th Overall Giro d'Italia 1st Stage 5 2nd Stage 16 3rd Tour de Suisse 3rd Prologue 3rd Stage 1 2nd Stage 3 2nd Stage 6 2nd Coors Classic 3rd Paris-Nice 2nd Milano-San Remo 3rd Critérium International 1st Stage 4 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana 2nd Pernod-Super Prestige 1989 1st Overall Tour de France 1st Stage 5 1st Stage 19 1st Stage 21 1st World Road Race Champion 1990 1st Overall Tour de France 1992 1st Overall Tour DuPont 1st Prologue |
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10-18-2012, 12:17 PM
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#533 |
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Adventurer
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Columbus, Ohio
Oddometer: 17
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Maybe I missed it, but has anyone wondered how he could be tested as much as he was and the tests came back clean??? Maybe the testing protocols and testers themselves need to be looked at.
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10-18-2012, 12:24 PM
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#534 | |
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Boxer Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 419
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Quote:
In 2000, if I recall correctly, they introduced the EPO testing, but Dr. Ferrari figured out that by injecting EPO directly into the blood stream in small quantities (micro dosing) and also reintroducing fresh blood (which had been drawn -- clean -- at an earlier date) for the purposes of dilution, the hematocrit levels could be brought down to "normal" range in time for a test. But it's important to realize that the "500 tests passed" myth is just that -- a myth. I think it was Cyclismas who came up with a "maximum" number of 236 tests, which they were able to then somewhat verify via UCI and USADA records.
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Ben Carufel - Motorsport Photography - http://www.bencarufel.com '11 BMW F800ST - '02 BMW R1150GSA - '72 BMW R60/5 Other bikes to appear above shortly, rest assured... |
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10-18-2012, 12:27 PM
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#535 | |
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Zombie Holocaust
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Historic Montrose CO
Oddometer: 2,302
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Quote:
__________________
VIVA LOS MTNADS
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10-18-2012, 12:46 PM
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#536 | |
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Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: socal
Oddometer: 4,260
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Quote:
i was going to do some research real quick here, but turns out i don't need to, and it's worse than i thought - i thought i was engaging in a little hyperbole, but turns out, i wasn't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_...France_winners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_...2C_1998_-_2012 and i didn't recall this, but indurain did test positive for salbutamol, banned by the french sports ministry in the Tour de L'Oise, but he ended up not being sanctioned for it; apparently other bodies allowed it for asthma sufferers, so they ended up not sanctioning him for it even though the french ministry didn't make allowances for it? a little whack, but whatever. PoundSand screwed with this post 10-18-2012 at 12:51 PM |
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10-18-2012, 12:48 PM
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#537 | |
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Zombie Holocaust
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Historic Montrose CO
Oddometer: 2,302
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Quote:
USA Cycling in particular decided not to control cyclists prior to at least one world championships because they knew all their top guys would fail....and there would be controversy. All they did was put it off. And, yeah...we know the testing protocols were shit. No test for EPO until maybe 2002 (?) I'm surprised that we're not talking about how these fuckers were JUNKIES! The only difference is that the dragon they were chasing was victory. They lived like criminals, they were routinely breaking the law, cheating worthless scum. They could have walked away at any time, despite what Levi said, nobody forced them to cheat. Nobody forced them to stay inside the cheating culture. They saw a way to game the system and ran that program until they were forced into the light. Lance is the worst among them.
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VIVA LOS MTNADS
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10-18-2012, 12:51 PM
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#538 | |
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Zombie Holocaust
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Historic Montrose CO
Oddometer: 2,302
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Quote:
I did read where you wrote 'all top cyclists are suspect' hence my response. I understand now that wasn't precisely what you meant. Cheers.
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VIVA LOS MTNADS
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10-18-2012, 12:58 PM
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#539 | |
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bench adventurer
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: North of the Border, CA
Oddometer: 3,517
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Is your point that he could not have had those results clean?
I think the ups and downs of Gregs career show a normal pattern. Gunshot wounds not withstanding. Quote:
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91 Hawk GT |
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10-18-2012, 01:16 PM
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#540 | |
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Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: socal
Oddometer: 4,260
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