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Old 10-20-2012, 01:04 PM   #70261
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badweatherbiker View Post
It will start without the enricher from cold, meaning cold motor not ran that day.
It starts beautifully, idles smooth too.
I taped the airbox 3/4 closed up couple days ago and finally got around to riding it a bit ago (im at work) and that made it worse, twist the throttle a bit fast and it boggs down. I cleaned the little elbow fiter and same thing. again, plugs were a little on the whitish-greyish side s I dunno. exhaust smells like a damn lawn mower.

I have a rattle somewhere I cant diagnose when I hit some bumps almost a squeal kinda tin sounding. I had some barkbuster knockoffs but they wouldnt work and one of the threaded stoppers inside the handlebars is missing so need to change them out, they are older purple bars on a yellow bike when it gets a bit colder im gonna need some wind deflectors.
stupid kickstand hits the swingarm also, nice little groove there.
your bike is definitely running too rich. which is why it runs even worse when taping up the airbox - that only makes things richer. i don't know much about the stock carbie, but i would try lowering the main needle or leaning out the mixture screw...

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #70262
maynard911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willwilkins View Post
I love my DR650, had it since new and done loads of mods to improve it, except the brakes. How d'you make them stop better? The brakes on mine have always left me feeling pretty underwhelmed. I've got braided hoses and decent pads, but there's a fair bit of weight to haul up especially if loaded.
Any mods/comments
Well there is always the 320mm kit.
What exactly are your 'decent pads'? The oem Suzuki pads are good, some of the aftermarket stuff is not so good. The best I have run across are EBC MXS. They are not listed for the DR but are the same as 07 Yamaha WR450 which is listed. I bought some for my WR and noticed that both bikes use the same model Nissin caliper. So I tried them, and wow, very noticable difference.
Is there any posssibility that the pads you have have been overheated and glazed? If so pull the pads out and deglaze them by rubbing in a figure 8 motion on a piece of #180 sand paper on a flat surface. Give the disc a light sanding also.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:22 PM   #70263
maynard911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post

Next:
I had been using less expensive EBC pads on my DR650 for a couple years. Braking force seemed to get worse as they wore down. I swapped in an old pair on OEM Nissin pads ... and WOW! Braking was up by about 20%! I believe EBC pads glaze and bite is reduced over time/use.

I've since gone back to Nissin pads. Deals can be found on them if you dig around the net. Way better performance in my experience. Rear brake, EBC seems to work OK. I don't want a really over sensitive rear brake, so the Red EBC pads out back are OK for now ... and they last well.
I have tried those red EBC kelvar pads also, even new they have 20% less power than the oem stuff.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #70264
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badweatherbiker View Post
It will start without the enricher from cold, meaning cold motor not ran that day.
It starts beautifully, idles smooth too.
I taped the airbox 3/4 closed up couple days ago and finally got around to riding it a bit ago (im at work) and that made it worse, twist the throttle a bit fast and it boggs down.
As doug s. says, the fact that it will start from cold with no enrichment and the fact that taping up the airbox makes things worse both point to a rich condition. The fact that there is no change in the severity of the condition when the bike warms up points to a severe rich condition. There are a number of things that can be responsible for a rich condition in the 1/16-1/4 throttle opening range (this range corresponds to cruise). They are:

Incorrect needle shape (example: DynoJet needle).
Emulsion tube worn out due to worn out slide guide.
Fuel level to high due to too little float height, faulty float needle, or faulty needle seat o-ring.
Clipped slide spring.
Sticking cold start enrichment plunger, due to a missing return spring or a kinked/otherwise binding cable.
Jet needle too high (i.e clip too low)..
Pilot jet too large.
Main jet too large.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #70265
Rumlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badweatherbiker View Post
It will start without the enricher from cold, meaning cold motor not ran that day.
It starts beautifully, idles smooth too.
I taped the airbox 3/4 closed up couple days ago and finally got around to riding it a bit ago (im at work) and that made it worse, twist the throttle a bit fast and it boggs down. I cleaned the little elbow fiter and same thing. again, plugs were a little on the whitish-greyish side s I dunno. exhaust smells like a damn lawn mower.
.
If you went from a wide open air box (top) to 3/4 closed, that is a huge swing at the air intake with the duct tape. But at least you know what rich feels like now.
My thoughts originally were that you had a lean surge going on when cruising and accelerating, which is why I suggested taping the opening a little.

From your comments about the enricher I would agree with Doug that you are probably rich most everywhere now.
Before tearing into the carb (which may be inevitable) I would try turning the pilot screw in a little to lean out the idle circuit a little and removing about half the tape you put on. Then see what it does.
Remember the tape is only a quick fix to maybe get you in the ball park and help determine if it's lean or rich-- not a solution.

Also did you note the location of the carb VENT filter (not gas) . It should not be hanging down in the airbox, but off to the side a little or the intake pulses in the airbox can mess with the carb slide and cause a surge.

Good luck!

Rumlover screwed with this post 10-20-2012 at 02:55 PM
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:56 PM   #70266
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
From your comments about the enricher I would agree with Doug that you are probably rich most everywhere now.
I could be wrong, but I think he was saying that it would start easily from cold before he taped the airbox. Plus, so little air is required at idle, I doubt taping the airbox would affect starting.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #70267
Rumlover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I could be wrong, but I think he was saying that it would start easily from cold before he taped the airbox. Plus, so little air is required at idle, I doubt taping the airbox would affect starting.

Regards,

Derek
Your correct. I hope I am not confusing the issue.

My thoughts were (now that we know it starts without the enricher) that there are possibly two issues going on.
1) pilot screw opened too much (so no enricher needed to start).
2) And what I thought was originally a lean issue on the needle and or main (causing surging), is now a rich condition because of the excess tape.

That is why I suggested backing off the tape and turning the pilot screw in.
Probably too many opinions now --- I will bow out to avoid confusing the issue.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:20 PM   #70268
BergDonk
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Front Brake

If everything is up to scratch, a bigger disc is what's needed like others said. Its on my to do list. One other thing I did in addtion to a braided line was fit a Brembo master cylinder. Its got a smaller bore, so needs a bit more travel for the same force. With the braided line compensating, its a more progressive and controllable action, but ultimately, no more powerfull.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #70269
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
2) And what I thought was originally a lean issue on the needle and or main (causing surging), is now a rich condition because of the excess tape.
I had considered that, except that he also stated that without the tape, there was no difference in severity when the bike warmed up. Normally if the mixture was lean, matters would improve as the engine warmed up, and he said they didn't. Also consider that it takes a massive change to go from a lean surge to a rich surge. After all, the mixture has to be way, way rich to produce a symptom, whereas it only has to be a little lean (comparatively). To illustrate, the ideal CO% is ~3-5. Lean symptoms will begin to manifest around 2%, whereas rich symptoms won't until somewhere around the 12-13% mark.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #70270
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynard911 View Post
I have tried those red EBC kelvar pads also, even new they have 20% less power than the oem stuff.
For the front brake I was referring to the EBC sintered pads. Pretty much their best pad. They are well below the performance of the OEM Nissin pads.
Both are rated HH ... the Nissin is worlds better in my experience, but do wear quickly if used hard.

The red EBC Kevlar ones I use in the rear brake. They are fine for me, don't need a lot of power there ... and can still lock up easy enough. I tend to drag the rear brake, so the hard wearing Red Kevlar ones seem pretty good. YMMV.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #70271
badweatherbiker
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You guys are awesome, thanks so much for the help and all the great info on diagnosing the issue.
I wont have another chance to peel away some tape until Monday when I am back at work (the bike is parked there) but I'll let you know what happens!
It was just confusing because the plugs did not indicate a rich condition.
so the consensus is remove some tape and turn in the mixture screw?
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #70272
TRAVELGUY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Sorry for not doing a better update on my Tubeless attempt. I used a 3M
Marine sealer for the spoke nipples and enlarged the valve stem hole for a tubeless valve stem. It would not hold air. I have some valve stems from NAPA that the guy that developed this procedure recommends. Fits stock rim hole.

The procedure I'm am planning on using uses two different materials. The guy that posted the procedure has done several of his bikes and done extensive riding. If I do go with sealing the rims hopefully this will do the job.

I'm not sure of the reason. I think the tubeless Distanzia I used would not butt up close enough to the stock 17" wheel bead to form a seal. Could not air it up ... or .... some how I missed something (quite possible) and didn't seal the wheel good enough?? ?? The originator of the procedure I plan to use says due a bathtub test and reseal any leaks.

The very best option on this, IMHO, is to send your DR650 wheel to Woody's Wheel Works and let him seal it up right to make it a tubeless affair. Have thought of that but don't have the time or money.

But here is my worry:
Lets say you get a flat on the road. You plug the hole ... but lets say the bead has broken (this typically won't happen on a real tubeless rim, but the stock DR rim is NOT a tubeless rim) So if the bead is broken ... how do you re-inflate on the side of the road with CO-2 or hand pump? I have been concerned about that happening, since I have never had a flat tire on the road or dirt 300.000 miles I feel sure it has to happen this trip. My riding buddy will have a large compressed air bottle with him and there is always using a little pour of gas and a match, boom!!!

Woody may recommend you buy a NEW WHEEL that will work tubeless, but that could limit tire choice. So some things to think over.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Not many have done this on a DR650 that I know of. I hope you will follow up with any info you find on this and do a better job than I did documenting.

All the best!
Grifter thanks for your response and input. If I do seal the rims I will try to post results.

TravelGuy
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #70273
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badweatherbiker View Post
so the consensus is remove some tape and turn in the mixture screw?
You could adjust the pilot screw via the following method:

Start the engine and warm it up. Lower the idle speed below the factory spec. Starting from a setting that is known to be lean (1-1/2 turns is likely but not guaranteed to be), adjust the fuel screw to obtain the highest idle speed. Adjust to 1/8 - 1/4 turn richer than that. Then, adjust the idle speed back to 1500 rpm. Report back with the setting.

In order to determine whether, as Rumlover suggested, the mixture was lean before the tape was applied and is only now rich, you could gradually remove more and more tape, testing after each change. If he is right, there will be a sweet spot where it runs better than it does now as well as how it ran un-taped. If the problem gradually gets better as you untape, but never gets better at any stage than before it was taped or now, then you started out too rich and taping only made it richer.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:01 PM   #70274
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhL0aTeR View Post
All good there.

I spent an hour thinking about getting the vapor before i ordered the cable last week, so I'm already halfway there.... Lol. Honestly,i couldn't find a decent pic of a vapor installed to give me a good idea of what it would look like.
This was just a quick search, but I remember there being better videos out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1KSaYo-Wpk
If I understand the instruction manual for the Vapor unit, it's basically just a handlebar mount. The mounting bracket goes around your handlebar in much the same way you'd install a RAM mount. Then, the vapor bolts up to that, so it sits closer to the bars than the stock unit. However, it looks like they make it very easy to fab up your own mounting system, so you could probably just do whatever the hell you wanted with it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:56 PM   #70275
JTB488
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Sorry I don't have a pic, but the Vapor does come with an aluminum bracket that you can use to mount it to the front of the upper triple clamp.
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