We need a Zuma 250, or Ruckus 250!

[max57]

Originally Posted by Warney

Are you high?

Just high on emoticons.

[redhandmoto]

Originally Posted by max57

Regarding the engines, Honda has impressive quality. But when it comes to pieces breaking off, and the ordeal of working on Honda scooters, Honda's attitude toward long term ownership becomes clear. Hondas, through pain and suffering, can be made to last a very long time. But that is not Honda's intent. They make their scooters to be driven for several years and scrapped. The beauty of the other brands mentioned above is that they are made to last a lifetime, and to be a rich experience to work on. Hardware that comes apart without breaking or sawing, details that hold up for many years, removable wheels, road holding suspensions. I have been driving the same European scooter for 40 years, and the quality is remarkable. I also have the first Honda Elite, the 1984 125, and as impressive as it is on its strong points, there is a lot of heavy wire holding it together now.

Gee, Max; my experience of Honda is completely different from yours. My first was a 1964 Sport Cub C110; my most recent an '06 VT750. There have been many Honda scoots and light bikes in between, and I couldn't disagree more about Honda having a "throw-away" design strategy.

Your 40 year-old euro-scoot is a gem; like earlier Vespas, designed for ease of maintenance and repair, but such things are not made anymore. Modern Italian machines are sold on the cachet of "boutique" appeal, are complex, not particularly easy to work on, and nowhere near the value for the money as were earlier generations which were designed for economy of use and maintainability. That's only one of the reasons why Piaggio/Vespa have been soundly outstripped in market share by Honda, and soundly beaten thus in Italy, the strongest scooter market in Europe.

[max57]

Originally Posted by redhandmoto

Gee, Max; my experience of Honda is completely different from yours. My first was a 1964 Sport Cub C110; my most recent an '06 VT750. There have been many Honda scoots and light bikes in between, and I couldn't disagree more about Honda having a "throw-away" design strategy.

Your 40 year-old euro-scoot is a gem; like earlier Vespas, designed for ease of maintenance and repair, but such things are not made anymore. Modern Italian machines are sold on the cachet of "boutique" appeal, are complex, not particularly easy to work on, and nowhere near the value for the money as were earlier generations which were designed for economy of use and maintainability. That's only one of the reasons why Piaggio/Vespa have been soundly outstripped in market share by Honda, and soundly beaten thus in Italy, the strongest scooter market in Europe.

I had 3 different Hondas in the 1960s, and they were well made. The 84 Elite is well made for the most part. But it is nasty to work on. I think Japanese carmakers and motorcycle makers alike think machines should be scrapped and replaced by new models instead of repeatedly repaired or rebuilt to serve into old age. Parts are very expensive and often not made any more for old models. You are probably right about the new Vespas, I am not familiar with them. By the way I don't have a Vespa, I have a Heinkel, and it is 52 years old.

http://www.heinkeltourist.com/Images...est1991_14.jpg

[redhandmoto]

Originally Posted by max57

the way I don't have a Vespa, I have a Heinkel, and it is 52 years old.

Oh, i know, i know...and I reeeaallly want it!

[max57]

Originally Posted by redhandmoto

Oh, i know, i know...and I reeeaallly want it!

I guess I better get used to the fact that it's the 21st century.