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Old 11-10-2012, 06:49 AM   #181
laser17
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Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
As I understand it. (second hand from the horses mouth) The details are done. The thing about no stop it becomes more dynamic , as in it can be televised to the masses to be more appealing. Imagine the x- games just showing a guy stopped in one spot on a bike, boring!!
Im glad there coming here - but worry it will be another money loser for TTC. Many wont go.

Try comparing videos of the 2011 vs 2012 BTC and tell me again its more fun to watch and better on TV. On the contrary - its far worse. No wow factor. Will not pull in youth riders. The only exciting thing about it is the arguments after the event debating the scoring. I love the sport and no stop bores me to sleep. The world sports scene is trending to the more extreme, not the nostalgic side of sports.

Put a stop watch on the sections at the club level if your waiting 5 minutes for champ riders. (like they have at WTC) and open them up. Its a heck of alot easier for a observer to hear the ring of a countdown timer than to determine if zero forward velocity was detected. 90 seconds is not alot of time and the boing time is kept to a minimum.

I enjoy a technical setup, but agree with you that there's too many box and hop setups.

Excerpt from Andy over at TC after witnessing two BTC events in 2012.
We’ve been told that bike sales are in decline and that the no-stop move was to encourage more entries and subsequently increase the sale of bikes. Who’s going to buy those bikes? The guys and girls already riding the championship? No. They’ve already got bikes. Spectators? The no-stop rules will encourage spectators to take up the sport and go out and buy a bike. Maybe, but we’d have to ask “What spectators?” We only attended two British Championship Trials last year and in terms of Spectators both were very poorly attended. We even left the second one early because it just wasn’t entertaining to watch, let alone try and take dynamic photos of and subsequent reports from numerous sources have said exactly the same. No-stop just isn't spectator friendly. The British Championship is supposed to be a showcase of the best of our riders impressing and wowing. That’s what people want to see. That’s what will make little Johnny pester his Dad to buy him a bike. We also think that the marketing and promotion for the British Championship is atrocious which certainly doesn’t help with attendance figures, but that’s another story, for another day.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:27 AM   #182
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I'll have to wait and see, but more than likely, if we start doing no stop I'll quit competing.
I have a few KTMs that I can ride no stop and there are tons of places to ride them.
I'll would keep on riding trials for cross-training as there is nothing better!!

I was all stoked to go watch the world round but will probably pass now.

FIM is smooching the pooch on this one. Like it has been said, Motorsports are going more extreme not pussifying everything. .

It would be like telling Shaun White "no more aerial 360s, the new guys can't do them".

Cant wait to see what else they have forthcoming. I predict this will be the death of modern trials. Welcome to 1970.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:47 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Remember that these are the same guys that said all Trials bikes had to be four strokes by 2006!
And after that was reversed, perhaps some of the same old naysayers out there now who said, "Ha...those things will NEVER win now!"
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:37 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
I'll have to wait and see, but more than likely, if we start doing no stop I'll quit competing.
I have a few KTMs that I can ride no stop and there are tons of places to ride them.
I'll would keep on riding trials for cross-training as there is nothing better!!

I was all stoked to go watch the world round but will probably pass now.

FIM is smooching the pooch on this one. Like it has been said, Motorsports are going more extreme not pussifying everything. .

It would be like telling Shaun White "no more aerial 360s, the new guys can't do them".

Cant wait to see what else they have forthcoming. I predict this will be the death of modern trials. Welcome to 1970.
Don't quit Gordy. Stick around. Trials needs all of us. I know that this pisses some people off. They love trials and see this as a threat. But I say let's see how this goes. It's an effort to try and save a dying sport/business.

Ok, so now it time for the leaders of our sport to act like leaders. No I don't mean NATC, FIM or AMA. I mean the regular guys at the local club level. You and me. How we react to this will send ripples through our clubs.

Pick one or make up your own.:

1) This is Bullshit. I don't know what it is exactly, but I don't like it.

2) Let's keep an open mind and exchange ideas. Let's give it a chance. It may be fun.

LowPSI screwed with this post 11-10-2012 at 11:15 AM
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post

It would be like telling Shaun White "no more aerial 360s, the new guys can't do them".
Wrong....... It's telling Shawn White " do all the moves you want but, you can't stop before every move, hop around and get perfectly lined up, adjust your helmet, think about it and then go again"

It's telling Shawn White that part of the challenge is "linking moves together" .
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:02 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Maybe we won't have to wait 5 minutes for a champ to ride a section. That would sure speed up the day.

However, I love the challenge of stationary balancing.
At the club level, it should be if you stop and put a foot down, that's a cinco. It's certainly not riding.



That's the way we used to do it. Definitely became more challenging and virtually incorporates balancing with no stop rules. But scoring became argumentative, because it can be very subjective if the wheels were rolling, when a quick dab is taken.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by 2whlrcr View Post
[/B]


That's the way we used to do it. Definitely became more challenging and virtually incorporates balancing with no stop rules. But scoring became argumentative, because it can be very subjective if the wheels were rolling, when a quick dab is taken.
Lets say you case the bike on a log and you cant rock it off so you put your foot down to push yourself off of that log. That is a five
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:56 PM   #188
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While we all discuss the merits no stop vs stop I feel we are missing the point.

Lowering the cost of the World Championships is one of the reasons for this. Read the FIM PR.

In the beginning travel costs = 1 rider..... Then 1 rider + 1 minder. Then 1 rider and God knows how many minders. Now its 1 rider + 1 minder + 1 mechanic + maybe a team manager. Salaries for everyone + travel costs + hotel + food = big Euros. The factories are selling way fewer bikes but still spending $$ on the WTC.

Same is true for our young riders at the Pro level. To get there you need a minder to practice with and travel to all the Nationals. Who is going to do that?

More importantly................Who pays?
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:38 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by LowPSI View Post
While we all discuss the merits no stop vs stop I feel we are missing the point.

Lowering the cost of the World Championships is one of the reasons for this. Read the FIM PR.

In the beginning travel costs = 1 rider..... Then 1 rider + 1 minder. Then 1 rider and God knows how many minders. Now its 1 rider + 1 minder + 1 mechanic + maybe a team manager. Salaries for everyone + travel costs + hotel + food = big Euros. The factories are selling way fewer bikes but still spending $$ on the WTC.

Same is true for our young riders at the Pro level. To get there you need a minder to practice with and travel to all the Nationals. Who is going to do that?

More importantly................Who pays?

Good points. I however, am at a loss as to how a NS rule would solve this. Making it more television and spectator friendly? I'm not seeing that either. I'd rather see a Pro set up and do a big obstacle (or multiple obstacles) that to watch the same Pro zoom around and do smaller obstacles. I think someone has already made this point, but there is already a sport like that. It's called EnduroCross. It's very entertaining to watch, but not as much as Pro Trials IMHO.

I dunno. It is still very early, and we still have not heard what "other changes" the FIM is planning. All I do know is that the NATC MOST LIKELY will not adopt NS next year, and I doubt highly that it will get adopted at the club levels anytime soon (unless the local club already has a NS rule that is).

Not arguing with you, LowPSI. I'm just trying to understand the logic of how a NS rule will increase Trials sales and attendance.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #190
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Not arguing with you, LowPSI. I'm just trying to understand the logic of how a NS rule will increase Trials sales and attendance.
No problem Brewtus.

The point I am trying to make is that I believe that the immediate goal of the FIM and the factories is to reduce what they spend on the World Championship. It's simple, by going to No Stop you reduce the number of support personal needed and team travel costs are reduced. The ratio now at the top level is about 3 support per each rider.

As for increased bike sales, put yourself in they factory owners position. As the sport has become more extreme their sales have gone down. They think they have a solution. It's their fortunes at risk. They know the history of the trials business. The trail is littered with closed factories.

As for increased sales and attendance I believe the school of thought is that all the hopping creates a barrier to riders wanting to try the WTC.

Just my opinion.

LowPSI screwed with this post 11-10-2012 at 06:08 PM
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by brewtus View Post
Good points. I however, am at a loss as to how a NS rule would solve this. Making it more television and spectator friendly? I'm not seeing that either. I'd rather see a Pro set up and do a big obstacle (or multiple obstacles) that to watch the same Pro zoom around and do smaller obstacles. I think someone has already made this point, but there is already a sport like that. It's called EnduroCross. It's very entertaining to watch, but not as much as Pro Trials IMHO.

I dunno. It is still very early, and we still have not heard what "other changes" the FIM is planning. All I do know is that the NATC MOST LIKELY will not adopt NS next year, and I doubt highly that it will get adopted at the club levels anytime soon (unless the local club already has a NS rule that is).

Not arguing with you, LowPSI. I'm just trying to understand the logic of how a NS rule will increase Trials sales and attendance.
This is my contention as well. The problem is stated as low attendance at the world level, and somehow a no- stop rule is supposed to fix that. Sorry, but it's a promotion problem, not a rules problem or lack of talent problem. If cost is the real issue, then fix the cost. I don't have a problem with changing rules to move a trial at a faster pace (if that's the problem) or make it more interesting and accessible to spectators. But implying no stop solves a cost or participation problem shows ignorance. There should be backflips and alligator pits at the world level to make it more challenging. :-)


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Old 11-10-2012, 04:02 PM   #192
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As Herman Cain would say: NO!

Making trials subjective to observers interpretation is going to be a yard sale. Discouraged riders receiving a 5 for a subjective call means pack the bike, sell it and ride a









HARLEY?

KISS. I understand trying to level the playing field in the world cup but step away from, the ledge. If NMTA continues to change the rules, change the classes and screw with old school proven success, there will be 30 folks maximum at the next 2 day.
Quote:
Don't quit Gordy. Stick around. Trials needs all of us. I know that this pisses some people off. They love trials and see this as a threat. But I say let's see how this goes. It's an effort to try and save a dying sport/business.

Ok, so now it time for the leaders of our sport to act like leaders. No I don't mean NATC, FIM or AMA. I mean the regular guys at the local club level. You and me. How we react to this will send ripples through our clubs.

Pick one or make up your own.:

1) This is Bullshit. I don't know what it is exactly, but I don't like it.

2) Let's keep an open mind and exchange ideas. Let's give it a chance. It may be fun.
Thumpermeister Today 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita
Remember that these are the same guys that said all Trials bikes had to be four strokes by 2006!

And after that was reversed, perhaps some of the same old naysayers out there now who said, "Ha...those things will NEVER win now!"
Gordy Today 08:27 AM
I'll have to wait and see, but more than likely, if we start doing no stop I'll quit competing.
I have a few KTMs that I can ride no stop and there are tons of places to ride them.
I'll would keep on riding trials for cross-training as there is nothing better!!

I was all stoked to go watch the world round but will probably pass now.

FIM is smooching the pooch on this one. Like it has been said, Motorsports are going more extreme not pussifying everything. .

It would be like telling Shaun White "no more aerial 360s, the new guys can't do them".

Cant wait to see what else they have forthcoming. I predict this will be the death of modern trials. Welcome to 1970.
I understand Gordy's comments, I can relate. Trials is all about balance and positioning the bike. I despise those that stop with their foot down and sit there for 3 minutes. But leave things along and leave the classes along.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:24 PM   #193
LowPSI
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But implying no stop solves a cost or participation problem shows ignorance.

Chuck
You may disagree with their ideas but they are anything but ignorant.

LowPSI screwed with this post 11-10-2012 at 04:37 PM
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #194
LowPSI
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Trials is all about balance and positioning the bike. .
Good insight. I realize that for many riders this is true. That is what makes accepting any new ideas difficult for some folks.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:16 PM   #195
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Pissed

Just what I need! Another way to get a 5!
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