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Old 11-13-2012, 07:53 PM   #271
Gordy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMTrailboss View Post
"Hi Uncle Gordy! You'll come out and watch me, no?"


Por favor Laia, como se dice, no stop?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:18 AM   #272
Sting32
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Talking about nationals and or world rounds, do they still have time to change the rules for them?

Well, if they do, I have even less desire to goto one and compete.

But I guess, I am not totaly sure on my stance, if nationals this year, get announced as no stop. I probably wont go (yeah empty threat, because I don't go that much anyway, they are so far away)... BBBBbut I would rather not spend that kind of $$ the 1st year of this IMHO, especially ridiculous rules changes, let them fight it out with you rich basterds (lol) that go all the time...

I think "not stopped" or "Stopped" (foot down or not) is tooo freaking much "judges discretion" and is one of the reason's we moved away from it a while back! Or at least I like to think so... because it makes sense to have don so.

Doing so back in what, in around 96???? It took this BS "was he or wasn't she stopped" from a judge that might see 2 guys ride exactly same, one get fived the other not. It is never perfect but removing yet one more possibility is a step in teh right direction, opposite of what they are doing now...

Plus, they did that for a reason, they even were going to build electrical boxes you hooked to your bike, that would light up if front wheel stopped turning, problem is if I pull a wheelie turn touch my brake, the box would light up even though rider was moving.

Its all going to be turned into nothing but Bullship anyway, if they bring back no stop. it is worse than the "slipped back wards enough to be fived, or lost forward momentum or not, enough to be fived, arguements that depends on how the judge "thinks" he saw, how hard ass he wants to be, plus they cannot be consistent in these calls, they never are. and we're not going to have instant replay for the foreseeable future .

I've been a judge, almost every weekend, and I am guilty of being nicer than I should be. I know that I lets newbies (novice/beginner) more latitude, on slipping or pulling backwards a little bit for any reason, for example... Yet, I also know if you aren't in novice, I am much harder on those riders in my sections I have no idea how others are handling it, but from the few times I dont judge and take my newbs around, many are even more "forgiving", which in hind sight might be allowing them novices false "accomplishment" since they should have been fived, if we strictly followed the rules..

but I always noticed, that these novice guys/gals that don't get the big five, try harder each time, but I don't know if they understand my thinking, and or even know, that when they move up it'll be a five for sure. I fight the need to explain why I didnt five them this time, but most times, I do warn them that "you were damn close to pulling your bike backwards too much, and getting a five" so they know.

This is not a big deal on club events where 70% of the riders are just there to have fun, and learn... But at the big Shows, this is going to PISS (not only me off) but EVERYONE that spends the BIG $ to compete, and get screwed over by undeniably inconsistant judging...

I have a "TRIALS TV" collection, and the one for 06 I think it was, where you watch Dougie and a few riders ride a section "clean" with more stops in them, but Raga (relatively newcommer at the time) got given 3 stop points and if you even run a stop watch, he rode the section in 30 seconds less time than the guys that didn't get stop points... I am a raga fan, but it has nothing to do with Raga, it pisses me off every time I watch that section, and even the commentator says "somehow they charged raga with stop points" Im like yeah, costs him thousands of dollars (could cost you the whole trials to get 3 unearned points you know) to be treated differently than the other competitors, and should NOT ever happen, but it DOES.

So again the "no stop crap was retried, and scrapped yet again, but here we go again! RIDICULOUSNESS!

What you think?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #273
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Mike Rapley came out of retirement to comment on this topic over on TC. Good read.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post

Por favor Laia, como se dice, no stop?
She would hurt you Gordy. Besides she's a GG girl now.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:42 AM   #275
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She would hurt you Gordy. Besides she's a GG girl now.
If I could only have 10 minutes with her......


....I would ask her about bike prep for Dakar!
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:49 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
If I could only have 10 minutes with her......


....I would ask her about bike prep for Dakar!
You go big man!

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:51 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
If I could only have 10 minutes with her......


....I would ask her about bike prep for Dakar!

Staying on topic - Would that be a stop allowed or no stop 10 minutes...
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #278
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Gentlemen Please !!!

Whats the big friggin deal......
I only worry about my bike stopping after tumbling down a hill........
Other than that its all hit and miss anyways.....
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:06 PM   #279
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Now we know !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2whlrcr View Post
A D17 jacket is the most coveting item in the universe around here. Plus we score ourselves, so it's much easier to cheat.

Allowing stopping, but put a foot down while stopped and you're out of here... Problem solved, well except for the subjective scoring issues, but we always have that problem.
Thats how you Zero'd that last loop
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:34 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
Talking about nationals and or world rounds, do they still have time to change the rules for them?

Well, if they do, I have even less desire to goto one and compete.

But I guess, I am not totaly sure on my stance, if nationals this year, get announced as no stop. I probably wont go (yeah empty threat, because I don't go that much anyway, they are so far away)... BBBBbut I would rather not spend that kind of $$ the 1st year of this IMHO, especially ridiculous rules changes, let them fight it out with you rich basterds (lol) that go all the time...

I think "not stopped" or "Stopped" (foot down or not) is tooo freaking much "judges discretion" and is one of the reason's we moved away from it a while back! Or at least I like to think so... because it makes sense to have don so.

Doing so back in what, in around 96???? It took this BS "was he or wasn't she stopped" from a judge that might see 2 guys ride exactly same, one get fived the other not. It is never perfect but removing yet one more possibility is a step in teh right direction, opposite of what they are doing now...

Plus, they did that for a reason, they even were going to build electrical boxes you hooked to your bike, that would light up if front wheel stopped turning, problem is if I pull a wheelie turn touch my brake, the box would light up even though rider was moving.

Its all going to be turned into nothing but Bullship anyway, if they bring back no stop. it is worse than the "slipped back wards enough to be fived, or lost forward momentum or not, enough to be fived, arguements that depends on how the judge "thinks" he saw, how hard ass he wants to be, plus they cannot be consistent in these calls, they never are. and we're not going to have instant replay for the foreseeable future .

I've been a judge, almost every weekend, and I am guilty of being nicer than I should be. I know that I lets newbies (novice/beginner) more latitude, on slipping or pulling backwards a little bit for any reason, for example... Yet, I also know if you aren't in novice, I am much harder on those riders in my sections I have no idea how others are handling it, but from the few times I dont judge and take my newbs around, many are even more "forgiving", which in hind sight might be allowing them novices false "accomplishment" since they should have been fived, if we strictly followed the rules..

but I always noticed, that these novice guys/gals that don't get the big five, try harder each time, but I don't know if they understand my thinking, and or even know, that when they move up it'll be a five for sure. I fight the need to explain why I didnt five them this time, but most times, I do warn them that "you were damn close to pulling your bike backwards too much, and getting a five" so they know.

This is not a big deal on club events where 70% of the riders are just there to have fun, and learn... But at the big Shows, this is going to PISS (not only me off) but EVERYONE that spends the BIG $ to compete, and get screwed over by undeniably inconsistant judging...

I have a "TRIALS TV" collection, and the one for 06 I think it was, where you watch Dougie and a few riders ride a section "clean" with more stops in them, but Raga (relatively newcommer at the time) got given 3 stop points and if you even run a stop watch, he rode the section in 30 seconds less time than the guys that didn't get stop points... I am a raga fan, but it has nothing to do with Raga, it pisses me off every time I watch that section, and even the commentator says "somehow they charged raga with stop points" Im like yeah, costs him thousands of dollars (could cost you the whole trials to get 3 unearned points you know) to be treated differently than the other competitors, and should NOT ever happen, but it DOES.

So again the "no stop crap was retried, and scrapped yet again, but here we go again! RIDICULOUSNESS!

What you think?

I asked Brad on his facebook page(Kinda felt like an ass,but someone needed to get NATC's statement)
" We will see how things go at the world level and discuss it at next years meeting in October of 2013."
A most sensible reply!
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:47 PM   #281
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The No Stop discussion seems to be cooling down a bit so I think I'll fan the flames. This was a wee rant by friend on FB. There are some good points here.


"Other than the fact that it is very difficult to judge constantly no stop is the way to go. Hands down. Trials need movement and flow. Natural transition between obstacles. I hate how the beauty of riding some wild terrain can be completely interrupted to watch some idiot bounce into place for 5 minutes. I hate how the creators of some sections have such a lack of creativity that they say. Let's just box them in. With proper section lay out no stop is not necessary. The same section can be just as challenging with out boring the spectators. The people who say they like to hop are silly and the only reason they say that is because they just happen to be better at than there competitors so it wins them trials. It's not fun. If you like to hop then have a trials in a parking lot. Carrying momentum and timing is the beauty of trials not watching some dude hump his handlebars until the obstacle is easy. Geoff Aaron 1999 now that was riding and style. Geoff rides no stop even when you could stop and hop. Anyway my point is lay the section out in a way no one needs to stop. Everyone will have allot more fun."

LowPSI screwed with this post 11-15-2012 at 05:16 AM
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:21 PM   #282
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OK I'll bite: Why cant people seem to understand a simple stop watch (count down timer) is a solution to the "idiot bouncing in place for 5 minutes" type comments. In fact its so simple - its already employed at the world level and nationals.

Also - "The other than the fact that its difficult to judge" is not a point that is just glossed over with supporters of stop allowed. For the most part - that's the main argument.

Hey - if you dont want to stop - dont! Show us all that dynamic motion!
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #283
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The FIM and the NATC are dicussing going brakeless. I heard this from Rona Barrett.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:38 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
OK I'll bite: Why cant people seem to understand a simple stop watch (count down timer) is a solution to the "idiot bouncing in place for 5 minutes" type comments. In fact its so simple - its already employed at the world level and nationals.

Also - "The other than the fact that its difficult to judge" is not a point that is just glossed over with supporters of stop allowed. For the most part - that's the main argument.

Hey - if you dont want to stop - dont! Show us all that dynamic motion!
I`ve got the perfect compromise. We`ll keep the current rules, but a stop with a foot down is only 4 points. All those crying about getting a five will only get a four and you can still stop if you have the skill!!! To top it off we have never tried these rules, so everbody can say it`s a fine `NEW` idea!!!
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:46 PM   #285
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Ok just fro grins

How about we leave it at the hop mode, but Barefoot?
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