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Old 11-14-2012, 06:08 AM   #46
windblown101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alii1959 View Post
I guess I just don't understand why it is so important to make a stupid choice.
Do you feel the same distain for someone who makes the choice to not ride a motorcycle for recreational purposes because of the unavoidable risks involved? People view risk mitigation differently. One cannot deny that riding off-road or in adverse conditions carries a certain level of unnessasary risk that the non-rider avoids regardless of how much gear we choose to slap on. At 50+ I'm currently sidelined by two broken ribs from a dirt bike accident that full gear didn't prevent. Some folks I know think of me as stupid because of my age and decision to ride dirt bikes. I can't argue the facts that at my age injury is more likely compared to someone whose 30 years my junior. It's a choice, and I choose to ride.

I personally am an ATGATT type 99.99 percent of the time for the simple fact that I enjoy riding and wish to contimue to be able to enjoy it and I KNOW I'm gonna crash from time to time. To a large degree this is due to how, where, and when I choose to ride. My brother is becoming more ATGATT but for years his position was that he would rather be in a car than ride with so much gear on that he couldn't experiance the wind blowing against his skin. He rides much more conseratively than I do as a result and avoids riding situations that increase his risk.

Our risks for injury are probably not that different, he just chooses a different way to mitigate those risks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm beleiver in ATGATT, however beleiving that non ATGATT riders are making stupid choices compared to yourself is pretty short sighted and requires not looking into the mirror too closely.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:26 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by windblown101 View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm beleiver in ATGATT, however beleiving that non ATGATT riders are making stupid choices compared to yourself is pretty short sighted and requires not looking into the mirror too closely.
I think it just comes down to freedom of choice. You should have the right to wear what you want. If you want to wear just a thong at a track day, well, hey, if the owners of the track allow it, go for it. But, on the other hand, if I think your a dumb ass for doing it, well I have that right as well.

There are always going to be decisions made by others that other people are going to criticize, I thing the events of 2 weeks ago are proof of that

I had an interesting discussion with a good friend a few weeks ago. He believes that coal power needs to be eliminated because of the health effects. Not only to people who may breath in the particulate matter the power plants produce, but that upwards of 30,000 people a year perish in the mining of the black stuff.

Interesting thought, okay, lets examine the 30,000 people who die/year in mining, first of all, the vast majority of that number is not in the USA. Maybe a few hundred in the US, secondly, who is he to tell the people who mine for a living that the risks they assume in their jobs to feed their families is unacceptable to HIM. He never did respond to that point.

I think it is fine for him to think and say they should not mine, just as I think it is fine for us to think and say you should wear gear, but it is also fine for the other person to say, thanks and . Now of course, it is fine for people to criticize us for wearing gear, but at the same time . Living in Texas, if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me if it is warm in there, I could afford a new top of the line Shoei helmet. And my response is almost always, "the concrete does not get any softer when it is warm out". Most people laugh, nod, and walk away.

And with that said, I believe in the individual setting their own standards for assuming risk, for me that includes not jumping out of a plane, riding a bike with most of gear, and if the engineering gig ended, gladly taking a job in the oil/gas/coal industries (in US/Canada of course )

ride safe.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:47 AM   #48
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I wear my gear. The boots, gloves, hearing protection, the whole nine yards, all the time. Sometimes I feel like I'm going snow skiing, so much effort to get dressed. There are times I am jelous of the guys in T-shirts. I know it would feel so good, sorta like skinny dipping. I respect their right to choose, don't really have a problem with it. As American adults we are blessed with this freedom. What does make me shudder is to be sitting at a stoplight and see some guy on his cruiser make the turn with his 10 year old daughter on the back wearing shorts and tank top. He is betting her skin and bones that they will not have a wreck on that ride. She is just doing what her daddy told her to, doesn't know any different. I hope for the child's sake he wins the bet. I hope he wins it every time.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #49
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm beleiver in ATGATT, however beleiving that non ATGATT riders are making stupid choices compared to yourself is pretty short sighted and requires not looking into the mirror too closely.[/QUOTE]

No....we were speaking of helmets. I fully agree that you should make your own choice. I just don't understand why you wouldn't wear one. While that may seem short sighted to you the mirror and I have few problems (save the fact that it is aging poorly, and it doesn't seem to appreciate the visual abuse I heap on it). I am ATGATT, but do not expect others to be. I hope for them to be. I pray for them to be. The helmet debate reminds me of the seatbelt debate....to me racers wouldn't use them if they didn't work. While you could make the argument for full race leathers as well I recognize that there is a cost and comfort link in here somewhere. I have had a number of students die due to a lack of being belted.....and i am sorry but I truly do not understand.

Even when enjoying risky sports/hobbies one can mitigate the amount of risk involved. Education, gear, attentiveness, etc. all play a role. I don't want a nanny state....I want a state that doesn't need to be nannied. I realize that is not realistic...I am an idealist.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:46 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by FotoTEX View Post
And the Harley guy's laugh at us for riding in full gear. Wonder if they still do after these images. Consider what you head would look like with-out a helmet?? Oh yea, I saw a Harley rider dead on the side of the road with his helmet in his side case. Great place for it...

I think most of feel that they don't ride far enough or fast enough to need it. I guess they don't mind getting hit in the face with rain, bugs, and everything thrown at you by car tires?

On a side note, I think they look just as silly as the sport bike guys with the helmet handing off the back of the bike...lol.

For the record, I ALWAYS wear my gear, I don't find road rash very appealing...lol.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:15 PM   #51
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Those who don't want to ware helmets should sign waivers that we as a society don't have to pay for their medical care when they have head injuries. A huge expense, their families should pay all they have before we pick up the cost. Might make some rethink their decisions, but doubt it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by stonepoint View Post
Those who don't want to ware helmets should sign waivers that we as a society don't have to pay for their medical care when they have head injuries. A huge expense, their families should pay all they have before we pick up the cost. Might make some rethink their decisions, but doubt it.

I think the same should apply to smoking, drinking, and voting democrat.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:36 PM   #53
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Maybe the question is better studied from the bare head crowd? Why is it they insist on riding without protection from a crash? Certainly no motorcycle racer would ever enter a race without a helmet regardless of the rules! Motorcycle racers are certainly smarter than most of us when it comes to risk. I don't get it...

Why the passion for no helmets?

Surely it's not "freedom". That angle must be a joke. We have that regardless of state.

Let's hear from the bare head crowd!
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:07 AM   #54
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Those who don't want to ware helmets should sign waivers that we as a society don't have to pay for their medical care when they have head injuries. A huge expense
Ill basically agree with that. In my country, helmet is actually the only protective gear required by law.

That would mean, that you could ride without a helmet, but if you get a head injury, you pay the expenses of that yourself, because your own lack of judgment has made the situation like this (either partially, or completely).

Fair play for everyone, and even better, the right to choose is still there. Dont get it, why such utter stupidity should be treated the same way as those cases, where riders have actually taken the effort to protect themselves. Its already listed on every insurance policy, that Ive ever had, that you, on your part, must have done everything in your power, to avoid an accident, and also limit its consequences.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:50 PM   #55
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Being from the UK, I dont give a toss about your politics and dont think they have any place on these boards.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:23 AM   #56
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Being from the UK, I dont give a toss about your politics and dont think they have any place on these boards.
What was that about?
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:39 PM   #57
Billtr96sn
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The comments have dissapeared now, but someone did bring some US politics into the discussion.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:43 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by alii1959 View Post
I guess I just don't understand why it is so important to make a stupid choice. I understand why the opportunity to make that choice is so important. But, those are two different things.
They aren't making a 'choice'. They are making a statement. People who ride without helmets are mostly just trying to fit in with their chosen brethren in the pursuit of style, but a few screwballs think they are making some sort of political statement.

So where does this notion of freedom reside in a motorbike? Why a column of old shaggy pirates escorting a funeral procession of some poor dead GI? How is there a connection? There isn't in my view.

I understand the sensation of unconstrained motoring that motorbikes generate for their riders. Even more so for those riding a dirtbike through the wilderness somewhere. That is certainly a sensation of freedom, but not in a political sense...I just don't get the helmetless thing. Any dope who races motorcycles knows better. They'd be dead by now if they didn't.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:10 PM   #59
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The comments have dissapeared now, but someone did bring some US politics into the discussion.
Ok, figured I had missed something.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:54 PM   #60
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at my former place of employment I was the only rider who chose ATGATT and my associates flat did not have a clue why in 100 weather i wore my stitch. that said when i started riding Indiana had a helmet law, and I hated the state's intrusion into my life I wore a before the law and still do. I think, too, some of you may have forgotten or are not aware that the good quality effective gear we have available has only been around for 15 ish years or so and unless you have lost some hide its value is likely dubious................ just sayin.
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