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Old 11-16-2012, 01:02 PM   #71176
DowDuer
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Location: Tehama Co. California, gateway to Hwy 36!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynard911 View Post
Probably that aftermarket milk crate. doesn't sound like a carb problem.
My guess is electrical. Most likely culprit, if it is still there, is the sidestand safety switch. If the switch is already gone, or you remove it and still have the problem check that all the connectors under the seat are tight.
I will remove the switch and see what happens. If it is the sidestand safety switch why does the problem only happen at highway speeds?
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:14 PM   #71177
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynard911 View Post
Probably that aftermarket milk crate. doesn't sound like a carb problem.
My guess is electrical. Most likely culprit, if it is still there, is the sidestand safety switch. If the switch is already gone, or you remove it and still have the problem check that all the connectors under the seat are tight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowDuer View Post
I will remove the switch and see what happens. If it is the sidestand safety switch why does the problem only happen at highway speeds?
Could be grounding intermittently, or shorting somehow.
This can be a tough thing to diagnose. If its not the clutch cut out plug, side stand cut out mechanism or Kill switch ... then it could be either your ignitor (pick up coil) or Stator. (god forbid) The Ignitor has gone South on a few DR650's, not expensive. Stator failure is more rare ... but expensive if that is your problem. Banish the thought. Beyond that ... no clue here.

53,000 miles is very impressive ... and tells me someone took reasonable care of your bike. But no bike likes to SIT. Marvel Mystery Oil and Stabil in fuel is a must do for storage. Your bike will run like new ... even after sitting for a year. (battery on Battery Tender of course ... I have 4)

Wait till the harvest is over ... then take your time and go through the thing. You'll get it.

I've put Highway 36 up for my "Best Road in America" many times. So far, nothing I've ever ridden comes close.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:18 PM   #71178
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
How much do you know about the original design, R&D and testing of the DR650?
No, I didn't know any of that history, but what are we supposed to take from this? Forget about the frame for a moment, and let's focus on the suspension, which, I believe you will agree, is universally reviled in its stock form. So you're saying that a top-level rider helped Suzuki develop the DR, and the bike ended up with such lousy stock suspension components?

All that says then is that Rodney's advice went into one corporate Suzuki ear and out the other. It's not the first time the engineers are saying one thing and the executives do exactly the opposite, nor will it be the last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
But the best part was watching Rodney ride the DR.
Sure, you can ride the DR really fast, I had been racing an XR for more than two years; the point is not what a Suzuki-contracted professional rider can do, it's whether the rest of us are willing to put up with what the bike provides. Apparently you can, whereas I cannot; more power to you for making do with a cheaper and more reliable motorcycle, I simply need something more.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:32 PM   #71179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
A lot of perception also depends on perspective. Riding some crazy, flexy-flyer, widowmaker bikes from the '70s and '80s, right now, could actually change your subjected-to-the-biasing-of-time perception of the DR's flexiness.
That's precisely what I have been saying. For the last two decades I have been riding bikes that have had rigid frames, excellent suspension components, and great motors. They were not misbehaving, they were not giving me any wrong signals, they were willing and very accomodating partners in our riding game.

And then I hop on the DR and I am transported twenty years back to a place I really don't want to revisit; been there, done that, I want something more.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #71180
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
No, I didn't know any of that history, but what are we supposed to take from this? Forget about the frame for a moment, and let's focus on the suspension, which, I believe you will agree, is universally reviled in its stock form. So you're saying that a top-level rider helped Suzuki develop the DR, and the bike ended up with such lousy stock suspension components?

All that says then is that Rodney's advice went into one corporate Suzuki ear and out the other. It's not the first time the engineers are saying one thing and the executives do exactly the opposite, nor will it be the last.

Sure, you can ride the DR really fast, I had been racing an XR for more than two years; the point is not what a Suzuki-contracted professional rider can do, it's whether the rest of us are willing to put up with what the bike provides. Apparently you can, whereas I cannot; more power to you for making do with a cheaper and more reliable motorcycle, I simply need something more.
For it's intended use and target user ... the suspension is actually not bad, especially considering this was 1996! How many dual sports, even modern ones, use 43mm forks. How about BMW? Nope.

The DR650 target rider weight for the DR650 was around 150 lbs.
In moderate riding, a 150 lb. rider can actually do OK, ON or OFF road.
I weighed about 170 lbs. in '96 and was impressed. It was SO MUCH nicer than my XR650L which I sold after only a year of trying to make it work.

But the DR is far from perfect, fast riding it gets out of shape, but mild riding and commuting, its fine. It was never designed as a race bike.

The stock 43mm KYB forks are actually FINE ... for more aggressive use they need heavier springs and better valves, maybe heavier oil (like Race Tech or Intiminators). Once set up CORRECTLY , they are not too bad. The shock is Less Good and the rebound damping goes away at about 15K miles. Still, a simple rebuild will change your world. See Cogent, ProCycle or rebuild the KYB shock yourself. Not really that hard.

You do make a good point as to how much of what Rodney suggested Suzuki actually DID. I'm sure BUDGET was an major issue ... and I'm quite sure Mr. Smith was well aware of this and accepted that only some of what he suggested would be acted upon. That' the corporate world. BTW, Rodney was also involved with R&D of the DRZ400. Shame they haven't updated that bike either. It was good in 2000 ... now? Not so much.
(I owned two of these as well)
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #71181
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Yes same guy. Dave and his DR are alive and well, one of the nicest guys I have ever meet.. I road his bike a few months ago when we got together at the Hubb Rally in North Carolina, he posted being there and asked where the other DR riders where, we were the only two. It was a shake down trip for his bike of 700 miles each way. I only had a 350 mile ride to get there. I was impressed with his modifications. He rode mine and seems to be equally impressed. We went, as far as modifications, in different directions to reach a similar goal. I used stock forks with Ricor valves and a Procycle rear shock, Suzuki lowering option, and staying with a stock carb. You have read his build so you know what he did. My subframe is not gusseted. After seeing his luggage I feel he made the ride move to gusset, he and I have always over packed, but I am starting to try and travel lighter, may not succeed in being as light as I would like. Although I have a new Procycle TM40 still new in box Dave said after riding my bike that I should not go to the trouble of changing my stock carb because there would not be that much change in performance. My DR does seem to run exceptionally well, not sure why. I did like the quick response of his TM40 when riding his bike.

My reasoning or motivation for staying as stock as possible is if I need replacement parts during my travels they should be easier to obtain. In all my travels I have never had bike problems, not even a flat tire, but feel the odds are against that happening forever so I over prep and carry spares.

So yes Dave is alive and well and hopefully will do his trip to South America in the near future.

TravelGuy



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Was that the guy with a garage full of Ferrari's, Maserati's and Porsche's ? What ever happened to his S. America ride? Did he ever go? Did he stick with his DR650?

I told him I thought he didn't need to gusset the frame ... as very few DR's (even over loaded) had ever cracked. On the last update I recall, he was trying to figure out Ohlins forks and some other over kill, high dollar items. ... but I think that was over a year ago now?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:31 PM   #71182
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
So, the high amplitude resonant frequency vibrations/oscillations happen mainly on dirt?
Nothing to do with the environment; it depends solely on the impact forces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
So, they are not RPM dependent?
Nothing to do with the motor; motor forces are longitudinal, frame flex is mainly along the transverse plane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
They must be dependent on evenly spaced bumps then - like a washboarded road...
No. Again, the forces from a washboard road are along the longitudinal plane, you need transverse forces to excite frame resonances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
The seam thing is fully suspension related as the tire is airborne for a split second during the drop.
Picture a seam without any height difference between the left and right planes; suspension is not involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
And riding on a seam is hardly enough force to flex a frame.
I could start expounding on the physics of sharp impacts, Fourier transforms, low pass filters, and resonant frequencies, but something tells me that you're not really posing these questions in order to learn anything new.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:42 PM   #71183
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Could be grounding intermittently, or shorting somehow.
This can be a tough thing to diagnose. If its not the clutch cut out plug, side stand cut out mechanism or Kill switch ... then it could be either your ignitor (pick up coil) or Stator. (god forbid) The Ignitor has gone South on a few DR650's, not expensive. Stator failure is more rare ... but expensive if that is your problem. Banish the thought. Beyond that ... no clue here.

53,000 miles is very impressive ... and tells me someone took reasonable care of your bike. But no bike likes to SIT. Marvel Mystery Oil and Stabil in fuel is a must do for storage. Your bike will run like new ... even after sitting for a year. (battery on Battery Tender of course ... I have 4)

Wait till the harvest is over ... then take your time and go through the thing. You'll get it.

I've put Highway 36 up for my "Best Road in America" many times. So far, nothing I've ever ridden comes close.
The stator and pickup coil really aren't that difficult to replace. Including the oil, filter, and parts, I replaced the pickup coil for <$100. A new 250 watt stator from Procycle is around $250 (if I remember correctly). Out of all the things that could go wrong on your bike, those really aren't that tragic. The sidestand could be giving you problems on the highway because of the greater force applied by that wind speed. If the spring is weak after all those miles, maybe the wind is blowing it down just enough to take pressure off that switch. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it's worth checking.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #71184
MikeyP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
... but something tells me that you're not really posing these questions in order to learn anything new.
I have to say John, I'm applauding your not losing patience as everyone tries to change your mind or offer suggestions, but I wonder why you're here. You've had the DR for a while, hate it, don't seem interested (to me anyway) in hearing suggestions about how you might be able to improve it, and are actively looking for a new bike. What are you hoping to get out of participating in this thread? To paraphrase your statement, it doesn't seem like you're here to learn anything new. Not trying to be a jerk, but as this goes on I'm becoming curious.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:55 PM   #71185
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And I should say that as someone who enjoys learning, regardless of who is right or wrong, I've been enjoying this discussion because I know nothing about frame flex properties.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #71186
Escaped
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Kinda reminds me of the guy who started the tread on how much better a husky is than a DR650. OK go ahead and buy a husky, but I and many others are very happy with the DR650.

At some point it become like trying to argue politics or religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
I have to say John, I'm applauding your not losing patience as everyone tries to change your mind or offer suggestions, but I wonder why you're here. You've had the DR for a while, hate it, don't seem interested (to me anyway) in hearing suggestions about how you might be able to improve it, and are actively looking for a new bike. What are you hoping to get out of participating in this thread? To paraphrase your statement, it doesn't seem like you're here to learn anything new. Not trying to be a jerk, but as this goes on I'm becoming curious.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #71187
joefromsf
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Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DowDuer View Post
Hello,
Starting about a month ago my DR began backfiring while cruising down the highway. This was happening between 50-60 mph. When it backfires the engine seems to stop and then bump start itself to life again. Now it is happening mostly from 60-70. The engine does not die if I pop the clutch and pull onto the shoulder but it does not have a any power for a second or two after the backfire and the bike decelerates rapidly. These backfires sometimes come in sets.

The bike is an 2002 with ~53,000 miles on it. K&N airfilter, stock air box/muffler. California model with extra hoses and junk. I do have an aftermarket milk crate on the back but I do not believe that is the source of the problem. I warm up the bike before riding. Air temps have been between 30-60 F with fog on some days. Damp weather seems to help.

Oh, and the clutch is slipping sometimes, so I changed the oil to 20W50 and leave a light bulb under the bike so it will start in the morning. Also oil leaks from front of engine at the head gasket and base plate. I have been working the Olive harvest and have not had time to do serious maintenance in a while.

I have cleaned the air filter, sprayed carb cleaner into the carb, run Gumout and Berrymans in the fuel. Tried different gas stations with different fuels. I also sprayed the carb cleaner on the outside of the boots while the bike was running to see if there was a leak. Doing all of these seemed to have a placebo like effect, bike runs good in the morning and bad on the trip home from work.

Anyone have any ideas? I did a search and the other posts did not seem to be the same issue.

Dow
As already mentioned, it could be the pickup coil.

Another possibility is vapor lock. Stock or aftermarket gas tank?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:22 PM   #71188
Richguzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Nothing to do with the motor; motor forces are longitudinal, frame flex is mainly along the transverse plane.
No. Again, the forces from a washboard road are along the longitudinal plane, you need transverse forces to excite frame resonances. Picture a seam without any height difference between the left and right planes; suspension is not involved. I could start expounding on the physics of sharp impacts, Fourier transforms, low pass filters, and resonant frequencies, but something tells me that you're not really posing these questions in order to learn anything new.
Oh big words, getting dizzy and sleepy, must get air, brain seems to be shutting down better go take a ride before head explodes... too much information....too much
Wait wait, what was this about exciting frame resonances?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:28 PM   #71189
Timan
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Stock petcock question

Did the search once again and didn't find a clear answer. I'm bringing a '04 back to life after it sat for couple years and have an issue (I think) with the petcock. It's a stock tank, petcock, and carb. I had the tank off for about week stored in my trailer. When I went to reinstall it had obviously leaked about 1/2 cup of gas in my trailer. Will the float system prevent gas from entering the crankcase? Is the petcock rebuildable or am I better off to replace with the Raptor? petcock I read about? If I do the Raptor deal, do I have to modify anything else? Is the Raptor a m/c model or is Raptor an aftermarket part like Pingel?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:48 PM   #71190
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timan View Post
Did the search once again and didn't find a clear answer. I'm bringing a '04 back to life after it sat for couple years and have an issue (I think) with the petcock. It's a stock tank, petcock, and carb. I had the tank off for about week stored in my trailer. When I went to reinstall it had obviously leaked about 1/2 cup of gas in my trailer. Will the float system prevent gas from entering the crankcase? Is the petcock rebuildable or am I better off to replace with the Raptor? petcock I read about? If I do the Raptor deal, do I have to modify anything else? Is the Raptor a m/c model or is Raptor an aftermarket part like Pingel?
If you're living in Should-land, the carb float should prevent the gas from entering the crankcase. The upside to the stock petcock is that it's vacuum operated, so if there's no vacuum being drawn, it won't flow fuel. Now, since yours is clearly not on board with that plan, you're counting on the float to keep things in check. For as cheap as the raptor petcock is, I'm not sure rebuilding the stock one is worth it. If you do the raptor deal, you just need to make sure you set it to off when you're parked as it will constantly try to flow fuel. I have this petcock, and as much as I forget to do that, the float has worked just fine.
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