Real world KTM 350 EXC impressions?

[simonpig]

Can anyone tell me the improvements/difference from the 2012 model year to the 2013? Looked it up, but can't find definitive info.

[Big Augie]

Originally Posted by simonpig

Can anyone tell me the improvements/difference from the 2012 model year to the 2013? Looked it up, but can't find definitive info.

Silver rims, moved the fuel filter location, graphics, different brand bars.
As Salty said it's a great bike, once set up for you you'll love it.

[ADVTuga]

Loving this bike

[mikeysduck]

2011 vs. 2013 I was pondering the same question.
I thought the 2012 had significant motor updates.

[Steveman]

May I ask a question concerning the 350 EXC. I am going to buy a new KTM after I sold my 450 EXC (2010) few weeks ago.
I surfed through the internet and found several tests. It is puzzling me that the German Motorrad Magazine writes: "The 350 is easier to ride, especially for the less experienced rider. Where the 450 gets in trouble as the backwheel spins the 350 with it slower torque gets through with ease! It is just the better bike when speed is not important"

I see.

The Austrian Enduro magazine also compared both bikes and states: "For the less experienced rider we would reommend the 450 as it has more low down grunt and therefore chugging power. It pulls you up the hill in idle while the 350 needs higher revs and a lot of clutch action. The 350 stalls often where the 450 just chuggles and needs no clutch action.

So one recommends the 350 for the less experienced rider and one the 450. I had a 450 and it was great but it steered lazy and always took the wide line. I am not an experienced offroder and I drive mainly the tough trails where you need first and second gear. So no desert blasting or 6th gear farm lane heat. Steep, slippery hills up and down and hard trails like in the vid from ADVTuga.

The 500 may be the killer in faster terrain, in the real hard stuff its far to strong and torquey, that is exactly the reason why no one uses one in the hard races like Erzberg, Hellsgate or Romaniacs.... So the 500 is not what I like to have.

Which one should I buy?

And no I cant testride one, even here in Austria a testbike is very hard to get as its almost winter. Testrides are again planned for spring (said the dealer) but I will not wait that long...

Thx
Steve

[Steveman]

Originally Posted by mikeysduck

2011 vs. 2013 I was pondering the same question.
I thought the 2012 had significant motor updates.

2011 there was no 350 EXC-F. It was introduced in 2012 with the brand new designed engine. Compared to its big 450 brother it has two camshafts and all valves are titanium, the engine case is new and has only two oil pumps and no seperated oil circuits.
The 2013 has, as far as I know only the technical updates which have been installed on the 2012 models after some problems. Rubber throttle potentiometer cover, easier to replace and better fuel filter and stuff like that. And the "Six Days" bike has a new fork.

Edit: the 2013 has a new designed balance shaft and a new starter and starter gear.

cheers
steve

[2Stamp]

Originally Posted by Saltydog86

I went from a wr250r to the 350exc, so I'll give you a short opinion on that. The wrr is a heavy underpowered bike, I do not miss it at all. The 350 has more than enough power for everything I have rode it on. I have had it over 13'000', tight mountain single track and woods single track enduro events. It really shines on the tight stuff, log crossings and rocky creak beds are so easy with it. I geared it at 13/48 using the stock chain and still hit speeds up to 75mph with no issues. I do not ride alot of pavement with it, only to connect trails and jeep roads. I added a Rekluse to mine and that makes it even easier for me to use the power it has. I have a range of fuel that is just over 100 miles on the stock tank. I waffled with the 350 vs 500 when i was shopping but feel like for the stuff I ride this was the best choice.

This is cross roads I'm at. I like my WR250R but am looking for more techical capability. I don't really think I need a 500! The 350 seems a good compromise. The majority of my riding is on tight single track in N UT and areas like Moab/ San Raphel Swell. The WR can do it but I know it can be easier with a differnt bike. I've even looked at a '07 250xcf-w I could plate.

[calltrex]

had my 350 EXC-F for 1 season now

awesome bike. no problems at all

i could have got the 500 no problem but i didn't because i wanted to stay light as possible. i like trails and woods and street

[mmm0042]

First off, love the bike. I've had it for about 2 weeks and already put 500 miles on it, most recently almost 300 in Moab for Thanksgiving weekend. That said, I had a starting (id10t error) issue I wanted to ask about.

I shut it down after a run but did not turn the key off. In a few hours, the light completely drained the battery. I figured, no big deal, I'll kick it over, do a run, and let the bike recharge the battery.

First, this thing is HARD to kick over. Never once did we get it anywhere near started. So, we decided a bump start was in order. We ran it down a hill, put it in second and popped the clutch. After hearing the engine turn over more than a dozen times, sputtering the hole way, it died.

At this point, I am thinking (WTF), is this a FI issue? Does it require having some battery power to start? I can't believe this is the case, since the non-EXC bikes don't have a battery, but it gets stranger...

We then tossed in the towel, pulled off the seat, and jump started it. The weird thing is, it started immediately, but as soon as we removed the cables it died. We actually had to leave the cables on for a minute or two, while the bike was running, before we could remove them and it would stay running on it's own (regardless of throttle position and RPMs). It's like we had to use the alternate power source to keep the bike running until the battery had recharged enough.

Obviously this is concerning for any endurance type ride, like the 170 mile desolate White Rim Trail we did while in Moab.

Anyone encounter this issue? Any ideas on what I was doing wrong (and yes, the key was on the entire time)?

[crazybrit]

Originally Posted by mmm0042

Anyone encounter this issue? Any ideas on what I was doing wrong (and yes, the key was on the entire time)?

Was the headlight on? I'm not sure it's switchable off/low/hi or just low/hi on this bike? If it was on you usually need to disconnect it (behind the mask) if you want to kick over a totally dead bike. Otherwise sounds like an FI issue, the previous works on a carb'd KTM.

[Saltydog86]

Originally Posted by mmm0042

First off, love the bike. I've had it for about 2 weeks and already put 500 miles on it, most recently almost 300 in Moab for Thanksgiving weekend. That said, I had a starting (id10t error) issue I wanted to ask about.

I shut it down after a run but did not turn the key off. In a few hours, the light completely drained the battery. I figured, no big deal, I'll kick it over, do a run, and let the bike recharge the battery.

First, this thing is HARD to kick over. Never once did we get it anywhere near started. So, we decided a bump start was in order. We ran it down a hill, put it in second and popped the clutch. After hearing the engine turn over more than a dozen times, sputtering the hole way, it died.

At this point, I am thinking (WTF), is this a FI issue? Does it require having some battery power to start? I can't believe this is the case, since the non-EXC bikes don't have a battery, but it gets stranger...

We then tossed in the towel, pulled off the seat, and jump started it. The weird thing is, it started immediately, but as soon as we removed the cables it died. We actually had to leave the cables on for a minute or two, while the bike was running, before we could remove them and it would stay running on it's own (regardless of throttle position and RPMs). It's like we had to use the alternate power source to keep the bike running until the battery had recharged enough.

Obviously this is concerning for any endurance type ride, like the 170 mile desolate White Rim Trail we did while in Moab.

Anyone encounter this issue? Any ideas on what I was doing wrong (and yes, the key was on the entire time)?

I copied this from a memebers post @ ktmtalk....hope it explains why you had the issue.

And, 2stamp, get rid of the WRR and get thsi bike...you will be happy you did!

"I could not find a fix for the dead battery starting issue in the thread. If I have missed it, sorry.

I did read all of peoples accounts a while back, and while attending the KTM Adventure Rally in my home town of Bend, Oregon, I had the opportunity to ask the KTM tech a few questions. Kyle (KTM Master Adventure Tech) was familiar with our dead battery plight. He mentioned he had success starting a 350excf with a dead battery with the help of a 9v battery. Yes, a 9v battery. The fuel injection system needs 9 volts to operate, and that is what prevents our FI bikes from starting. Kyle had mentioned he had come up with a design for a 9 volt/capaciter fix for the bike, and had shopped it to a few companies with no success.

Kyle said that if you carried a 9V battery with some connection jumpers, you could start the bike with it. He said to idle the bike for at least 10 minutes without reving the throttle. If you rev it or turn on any accessories, it will most likely stall out.
I am willing to bet there is enough room under the seat for a 9v battery and some wires.

I have not tried this, but it sounds sane to me"

[mmm0042]

Originally Posted by Saltydog86

I copied this from a memebers post @ ktmtalk....hope it explains why you had the issue.

And, 2stamp, get rid of the WRR and get thsi bike...you will be happy you did!

"I could not find a fix for the dead battery starting issue in the thread. If I have missed it, sorry.

I did read all of peoples accounts a while back, and while attending the KTM Adventure Rally in my home town of Bend, Oregon, I had the opportunity to ask the KTM tech a few questions. Kyle (KTM Master Adventure Tech) was familiar with our dead battery plight. He mentioned he had success starting a 350excf with a dead battery with the help of a 9v battery. Yes, a 9v battery. The fuel injection system needs 9 volts to operate, and that is what prevents our FI bikes from starting. Kyle had mentioned he had come up with a design for a 9 volt/capaciter fix for the bike, and had shopped it to a few companies with no success.

Kyle said that if you carried a 9V battery with some connection jumpers, you could start the bike with it. He said to idle the bike for at least 10 minutes without reving the throttle. If you rev it or turn on any accessories, it will most likely stall out.
I am willing to bet there is enough room under the seat for a 9v battery and some wires.

I have not tried this, but it sounds sane to me"

Interesting... I may have to disconnect the battery and see if this will work. I assume that when they say "you could start the bike with it" then mean kick start it. I have a hard time believing the electric start would work via 9v battery.

I'll post up the results, but currently my bike is at a friends, so it will be a few days.

More thoughts, info, and comments welcome!

[mmm0042]

Originally Posted by crazybrit

Was the headlight on? I'm not sure it's switchable off/low/hi or just low/hi on this bike? If it was on you usually need to disconnect it (behind the mask) if you want to kick over a totally dead bike. Otherwise sounds like an FI issue, the previous works on a carb'd KTM.

Yes, the headlight was on. Only low/high switch, no off, but it is sounding more like an FI issue.

If the 9v trick doesn't work (see previous posts), I may try disconnecting the lights and giving it a second try.

Thanks!

[Gryphon12]

I'm finding that this discussion is being repeated on a lot of threads across the ADVRider spectrum, from dirt bikes to street tourers. Manufacturers are implementing new technology faster than we are educating ourselves on how that technolgoy works, how we need to properly use it, and the consequences of new failure modes.

FI bikes have ECU's that require not only current but a consistent voltage for the ECU. This is why you can't just "jump it and go" with a depleted battery. The stator may provide enough power for the fuel pump, but without the minimum charge on the battry (or capacitor), the resulting voltage fluctuactions trip the ECU to failure mode and it shuts off to protect itself. To avoid these failure modes, either a battery or a capacitor will do, but the battery has to be in good condition (e.g. not recently totally discharged) and a properly sized capacitor needs to be fully charged.

With all accessories off (e.g. headlight), 9V is the minimum, but 12V is better, with the capacitor or battery providing the "depth" to produce a stable (non-fluctuating) current for the ECU. (This means that the kick-starter also needs some "depth" or "buffer" from an electrical reservoir to provide stable current to start the bike.)

One of the best discussions I've seen to date regarding the electrical requirements in somewhere in the middle of the WR250 Megathread. Bigger batteries and stronger alternators help avoid similar situations in modern automobiles, but the weight penalties for motorcycles result in compromises in the electrical system designs.

The aftermarket won't pick-up on the emergency starter concept due to the liability of "hurting" the ECU.

Spend some time reading other threads and see what has already been done before messing around with your bike. Google is your friend.

Lithium-Ion batteries are lighter than lead-acid batteries, but they seem to have less stable current properties when stressed. Also, voltage in lead-acid batteries drops off slowly with inadequate charging; Li-Ion drops like a step function. Lots of folks are using Li-Ion to save weight; some few have had problems. Others are carrying small Li-ion battery packs as backups for their lead-acid primary batteries when riding the far reaches of beyond. Still others are wiring-in capacitors to augment their factory electrical systems.

The bottom line - protect your bike's battery. With FI bikes, get in the habit of turning them off with the key ALL the time (assuming your bike has one). If you have to use the Kill Switch, get in the habit then turning off the key. Most of us don't use this procedure enough to make it a habit, but with FI / ECU sophistication come new REQUIREMENTS that need new riding habits.

[mmm0042]

Originally Posted by Gryphon12

I'm finding that this discussion is being repeated on a lot of threads across the ADVRider spectrum, from dirt bikes to street tourers...

...Others are carrying small Li-ion battery packs as backups for their lead-acid primary batteries when riding the far reaches of beyond...

...The bottom line - protect your bike's battery. With FI bikes, get in the habit of turning them off with the key ALL the time (assuming your bike has one). If you have to use the Kill Switch, get in the habit then turning off the key. Most of us don't use this procedure enough to make it a habit, but with FI / ECU sophistication come new REQUIREMENTS that need new riding habits.

Thank you for the post, it was very informative.

Quoting a few sections, I will definitely do more searching on the topic before doing anything.

I've already had discussions and thoughts on carrying a spare, good to know others are doing this.

As for the habit, I need to figure this one out... I always use the key, except when I am on an incline and want to shut it off in gear, because I am using the hand brake to hold it in place (which is what I did last weekend). Perhaps I will force myself to use the foot brake when needing to turn off on an incline and just discontinue use of the kill switch except in emergency situations.

Thanks again!