2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 vs. 2013 Honda CBR500R

[RaY YreKa]

Originally Posted by Grainbelt

divide by 4.55, multiply by 3.8... 63.5 miles per 'merican gallon

It won't get that, obviously.

Still, it should be almost as frugal as a G650GS, but with a tad more road presence and top-end.

By which I mean, 47bhp will reach 100mph, but it will take a long time to get there.

[Grainbelt]

Originally Posted by RaY YreKa

By which I mean, 47bhp will reach 100mph, but it will take a long time to get there.

I'd probably gear it down for harder acceleration and less top end. I need that 60-80mph 4th gear burst more than I need the last ten mph of top speed.

Wonder how wide the ratios are...

[RaY YreKa]

Originally Posted by Grainbelt

I'd probably gear it down for harder acceleration and less top end. I need that 60-80mph 4th gear burst more than I need the last ten mph of top speed.

Wonder how wide the ratios are...

No idea. I had an old battered CB500 (57bhp) that could do the ton, and liked it, but I felt like a jockey whipping a horse.

That's why I hope the torque curve is decent for these bikes.

[Dankarnov]

If you're throwing the KTM 390 into the mix I'd also note the Suzuki DR-Z400S & SM are back this year. If you want street excitement and are willing to put up with a dirtbike seat and a little higher cost the SM might be the way to go, it's got significantly higher spec suspension / brakes stock than the little CBR and Ninja.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by saltspray

If the 54HP at the wheel is true..this means around 60-65 at the crank, coupled with EFI and Honda engineering...no brainer..I want the CB500F as my new commuter.

Not a chance.

Only if they make the bike more powerful then they say it is to
conform to EU licencing regulations etc.

I'm gonna guess 40hp at the wheel tops.
How much does NC700X have? Anyone?

[scooterspirit]

Originally Posted by Cortez

Not a chance.

Only if they make the bike more powerful then they say it is to
conform to EU licencing regulations etc.

I'm gonna guess 40hp at the wheel tops.
How much does NC700X have? Anyone?

I say your right about the 500, that would put it right in the middle of the line up.
The 500 would have almost twice the torque @30ftlb vs 17 on the ninja. I do like the clip on arrangement better than sport bars on the ninja side. Someone mentioned Honda is a classic looker.

>>Honda claims a peak of 51 hp at a modest 6250 rpm rated at the crankshaft, which will likely translate into about 45 horses at its 160/60-17 rear tire. The Versys cranks out a relatively whopping 60 fillies. The NC’s torque rating of 45.7 ft-lb. at a low 4750 rpm is more impressive, promising a broad and linear powerband. Honda claims the NC700X gets a remarkable 63.5 mpg, which may translate into a range of up to 235 miles from its 3.7-gallon fuel cell.
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91209.html

[dman]

Just a comment on power-to-weight calculations. ABSOLUTE light weight is good for handling, but when you add the weight of a rider and gear to the bike, the RELATIVE percentage difference in power-to-weight ratio is reduced significantly, since the rider weighs the same whether they're riding a 350 lb or 400 lb bike. 50 lbs difference in a 550 lb total weight is less than 10%; and Honda's HP advantage is more than that.

FWIW I looked at and sat on both these bikes a few days ago at the bike show, and I think the Honda is probably a better deal for the US market. But the Ninja is still very appealing.

-dman

[Navin]

There is more than power to weight to consider, and 50 lbs means alot on a tight road or while braking. The bikes will appeal to different tastes in a similar range. Personally, I'd want the Ninja another 50 lbs lighter!

The 300 pulls 2 up just fine too. There is no danger of lofting the front wheel corner to corner but you can zip right up to almost 90 MPH in fourth and pulling away from traffic is easy shifting at 8k RPMs.

I'd recommend the Honda to friends but I'm expecting it to be more tame than the already kinda tame 300. The fact that I'm riding mine at under 7k RPMs 99% of the time tells me they went easy on the cams on the 300. I'd like to try it with a top end biased curve but then again, it does really well in the mid and will still pull all the way to over 12k so hard to really complain.

[Davidc83]

[QUOTE=Robert_C;20048391]I was thinking that too; but, I didn't want to jump on the point just in case I was wrong in my memory. There isn't a lot of, export oriented, manufacturing moving into China these days.

There are a lot of reasons; but, for a product like a car or a motorcycle, China just isn't a good choice. There are some products that China can do well, like consumer electronics. However, products that benefit from the Deming, and the continual improvement model are not a good fit.

Motor vehicles are made in China but that is because Chinas import taxes on motor vehicles, as on nearly all other imported goods, are very high. The tax on new imported vehicles can exceed 100%. This creates a powerful incentive to build factories within China. However, the quality of the output is nowhere near world class.[/QUOTE

really, ask me about my 2009 BMW G650gs with its Chinese assembled engine, which now has over 31,000 (not a typo) miles (not kms), and I just replaced the OEM chain and sprockets (last week) with the chain still looking like new. I have had 0 issues with the motor, not like the pre-2007 650 cc engines (built in Germany) with their bad water pumps and the 2012-2013 G650gs (assembly moved back to Germany) with their notorious bad hot start issues (decompression level issues).

[Navin]

In all fairness, those issues were probably not related to who assembled them but production parts that were faulty and upgraded to corrected tolerances. That engine is in what, its 75th year of production now?

Chain life can't be attributed to where it was installed either.

[kojack]

Originally Posted by DiabloADV

+1

I love my little CBR. I've done the first service and have taken the plastics and tank off and put them back on. The quality is all there. It's very nicely made. Quality is a function of engineering and corporate culture, not the race or religion of the hands that assembled the parts.

Exactly. Look at chev for example, built in America, but a garbage product. Crap is crap no matter where its built. Same goes for good products.

Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk 2

[Zammy]

If your gonna compare apples to oranges.....

[Navin]

Originally Posted by Zammy

If your gonna compare apples to oranges.....

Not fair, decent brakes!!! Great power!!! Foul!!!

I don't see these Hondas lighting the market on fire in the USA. the ER6-n was a better bike in most ways from where I sit, it was a sales flop.

[opmike]

Originally Posted by Navin

Not fair, decent brakes!!! Great power!!! Foul!!!

I don't see these Hondas lighting the market on fire in the USA. the ER6-n was a better bike in most ways from where I sit, it was a sales flop.

The ER6-n was every bit as visually appealing as a Gladius, and I never actually saw one on the sales floor. I don't have a hard time believing the CBR500R will outsell the ER6.

Also, with regard to brakes, have the NC700 owners made any complaints about the brakes? The race version of the CBR500 (as did the 690 Duke its replacing) also retains the single front disc. I understand regulations limit what you can and can't do to the bikes, but there's a helluva more that goes into a braking system than number of discs.

[danketchpel]

Boy, did this thread turn into a whole lotta something about where the bike is made rather than what it's about.

I am happy to see manufacturers offering more cost conscious bikes. I can understand they have to cut some corners on quality and apparently where it's built, but that does give the consumer some options. You DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT if you don't like it, but maybe it will allow some bloke to get into motorcycling where maybe he/she might not be able to afford to before. Of course there's always used, but maybe some want to buy a new bike. Triumph has been doing this with their twin cylinder bikes and I've ridden the Thruxton, it's a nice bike, I'd love to have one in my garage. I think it's a bargain.

In comparison to the Ninja 300, it seems apples to oranges to me. I'd compare the CB500X to the Versys 650 and the CB500R to the Ninja 650, that appears closer to me. The Honda is cheaper and less displacement and power than the Kawi. I don't see too many bikes in the 500 class right now. Once upon a time we had nice even class breakes, 250, 500, 750, 1000. Now you've got a jumble of sizes and have to compare those apples and oranges.

I'd have to ride the new CB500 to know how it stacks up. I've ridden the Versys 650 (not the Ninja) and I've ridden the Ninja 300, plus the old Ninja 500. Also bunch of older parallel twins from Honda, CB 360s, Hawk 400, etc. Honestly I'm not a fan of 180 deg parallel twins. I wish Honda had chosen to put a 270 crank in the new CB500 engine.

I think this bike is right in line with those older Honda "budget" twins, people have just forgotten that Honda once offered such bikes. To me there's a huge jump from the 250/300 class to a 500 class bike in terms of torque. You don't have to rev the piss out of a 500 class bike to pass a car, the 300 needs to be above 10k rpm to make a pass, that's the difference and what that means to you is important. The 300 is a sweet bike for it's size, no complaints, it's just what's important for your riding style and budget.